My Vehicle history. Help Needed

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Offline NHP

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My Vehicle history. Help Needed
- Jun 18, 2022 - 16:37
Hello. I have recently become the lucky owner of an 88 series one needing a complete restoration. I am hoping someone could give me a bit of advice on the age/ history of my vehicle.
The vin number from the plate is 111700606 which I believe means its a 1957
On the heritage certificate i have for it, it says it was built in sept 1956 and dispatched in oct 1956
The logbook says it was first registered in 1980.
Surely if it was despatched in 1956 the vin should be 1956 and why is the first registration in 1980
Any help would be greatly appreciated

Offline autorover1

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #1 - Jun 18, 2022 - 16:47
The 1957 model year vehicles will start to be produced  just after the annual  holiday shutdown in 1956  i.e. circa August 1956. The fact that yours was passed to Sales in September 1956 is consistent with it being an early  1957 model year, as the Vehicle Number 111700606 signifies

Offline NHP

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #2 - Jun 18, 2022 - 16:50
thank you.

any ideas why the first registration is 1980

Offline Fawlty Rover

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #3 - Jun 18, 2022 - 17:05
Any vehicle used on say an industrial site which never went on public roads would not need to be registered, similarly military vehicles. When they are sold on that’s when they need registering.


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Offline Cameron

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #4 - Jun 18, 2022 - 17:05
Probably the date it left military service.

Offline antarmike

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My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #5 - Jun 18, 2022 - 17:23
Generally British Military Land-Rovers are only in service 10 - 12 years.  It would be odd to a 57 still in service beyond say 1970.  It could have been a garage recovery vehicle running on trade plates after military service.


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Offline Tony B

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #6 - Jun 18, 2022 - 17:28
Was 1980 when it got 'computerised' on the DVLA database?

Offline NHP

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #7 - Jun 18, 2022 - 18:21
Thank you all for your replies.
It does have a blue bulkhead so maybe it did spend time in the raf. Has anyone been able to find history from the raf and if so how. I have just found the merlin archives for the army so have put in a request to them. Would be great to find out.

Offline autorover1

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #8 - Jun 18, 2022 - 18:57
Does the Heritage certificate say where it was dispatched to ?

Offline antarmike

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #9 - Jun 18, 2022 - 19:05
RAF vehicle records are with RAF museum Hendon.  I can’t remember if they can search on chassis number.  I have a feeling they can on search on RAF registration number


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Offline msm80

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #10 - Jun 18, 2022 - 19:14
Sadly most RAF record cards for pre-1960 Land Rovers were lost in an apparent building fire somewhere. I was very lucky to source some post 1960 history for my ex RAF 1952 Mk2 where it is clearly listed as 'Conversion, Truck Glider Retrieving'. This information came to from Geoff Fletcher of the Military Vehicle Trust. He kindly researched it for me for a modest fee about 9 yrs ago now. I suggest you contact the MVT and enquire or maybe ask 'austychamp' nicely on here as he does kindly comment on vehicles from time to time from his own records.

Antarmike is quite right, generally most vehicles were kept for about 10yrs or so before either being struck off to sale by auction or civil tender, or less commonly as with mine kept in service and re-purposed for an alternative use and then converted accordingly. Mine eventually was bought under tender probably part of a bulk purchase by MFI I was told and from that company sold off after being first registered in 1968, hence my 52 has a F suffix reg plate.
So in all mine saw 16yrs in service as did a number of glider trucks I've since come across. Good luck with your research.
Malcolm

Offline GunnarTM

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #11 - Jun 19, 2022 - 08:45
^The '53 80" I drive was an RAF sent to Germany that was brought back and converted to glider retrieval in August 1960, and continued service with (I suppose) the Air Cadets until being sold off at Ruddington Depot in 1968.  Similarly to Malcolm's, its first civilian registration that year was YJH780F.


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Offline TomC

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #12 - Jun 19, 2022 - 13:55
I think you have the answer to why a 1956 vehicle has a 1957 Model Year chassis number. Your vehicle has an age related number and what you need to know is why and when it received that number. A clue will be in the destination it was despatched out to on the Heritage Certificate. It will be either government or civilian. In 1980 it will have had a registration allocated for one of several reasons, but it was probably changed for the present plate more recently.

Offline NHP

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #13 - Jun 19, 2022 - 17:41
On the heritage certificate it says it’s original destination was ‘Murkett Brothers Ltd’ Bedford which I guess is civilian. Is there any reason it would of been registered in 1980 apart from the military. As some have mentioned it seems too long to of been in service but I can’t think of any other likely reason if I am reading correctly

Offline antarmike

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #14 - Jun 19, 2022 - 17:43
Probably the victim of a registration "Cherished Transfer"  and the registration date shown on the V5C is the date the second registration (the replacement registration) was given.  The registration mark it was given in 1956 is now on another vehicle.....

I cannot see you have told us what the registration actually is?   Is it a Bedfordshire registration? 

If the vehicle was sold to a dealer in Bedford it is odds on its registration would be one allocated to Bedfordshire.   If it is not a Bedford registration mark, then the chances are you have an previously unissued age related plate from another county..... possibly somewhere in Scotland?




Offline NHP

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #15 - Jun 19, 2022 - 17:49
It does have an age related plate ( I guess, 3 letters and 3 numbers) and it does state on the V5 it is non transferable. Does that make sense.

Offline antarmike

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #16 - Jun 19, 2022 - 17:53
It does have an age related plate ( I guess, 3 letters and 3 numbers) and it does state on the V5 it is non transferable. Does that make sense.

Non transferrable normally means it is a replacement number given when the original was transferred off.  If you give us the last two letters of the three letters, we can tell you the county that registration should have been issued to....  If it is not Bedford(shire), then it is almost 100% sure it is the second registration mark your vehicle has carried.   

When folks started to swap plates in a cherished transfer, it became very popular then to sell on the second (the replacement) reg also.  DVLA twigged what was happening and they made it impossible for these replacement age related numbers to be sold for profit..... by stating the replacement number could not be transferred to another vehicle.

Is there a problem telling us the reg or at least the last two letters  of the reg?

Offline scimart

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My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #17 - Jun 19, 2022 - 17:54
Duplicated question/answer deleted.

However, IIRC vehicles registered in the “historic” taxation class have non-transferable noted against their registration number on the V5

Offline Fawlty Rover

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #18 - Jun 19, 2022 - 20:48
Duplicated question/answer deleted.

However, IIRC vehicles registered in the “historic” taxation class have non-transferable noted against their registration number on the V5
I don’t believe this is correct, it certainly isn’t on my V5 for my 80”


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Offline DEG61 Paid Advertiser - Trade

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #19 - Jun 19, 2022 - 21:07
I don’t believe this is correct, it certainly isn’t on my V5 for my 80”


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I think it depends when it gained the number. My Healey 100 was given an age related number (GAS) in 2002 and that’s transferable. I think the DVLA worked out that there would be a market and changed the designation after that.


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Offline TomC

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #20 - Jun 19, 2022 - 21:27
The number is an age-related one SL.

Offline antarmike

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #21 - Jun 19, 2022 - 22:05
The number is an age-related one SL.

As suspected a previously unissued Scottish registration.... in this case had it been issued it would have been given to a vehicle registered in the Clackmannanshire area.


That will with fair certainty be a number issued when your vehicles original registration was transferred to another vehicle.   A process known as Cherished transfer,  intended to allow an owner to move the number from his last car to his next car,  but in reality a big business for making cash by selling on registrations for large amounts of money.

Unfortunately there is very little chance of knowing what your original registration was.... not that you could ever use it unless your were rich enough to buy it back  that is.

https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/registrations/sl.htm

Offline Trakgrip

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #22 - Jun 19, 2022 - 23:16
Duplicated question/answer deleted.

However, IIRC vehicles registered in the “historic” taxation class have non-transferable noted against their registration number on the V5

Only those which have been issued with age-related registrations or which have had the original registration re-issued. Original registrations which have been held continuously are transferable.

I recovered the original registrations on both my 1952 Bedford OLBD and by 1961 Iron Fairy, both of which had "lost" the originals when the transfer of registration management to DVLC took place. The Bedford had an age-related ("GSU") plate when I bought it, and the Fairy had a "Q" plate. I was able to recover both originals but both were marked "not transferable" (which is fine since I personally abhor the transfer of registrations and the whole vanity plate industry).

All my Series Ones, with one exception, have their original registration and have always done so, and these are transferable (although I have considered asking DVLA to flag them as not transferable so that no-one in future could transfer them off). The one exception was off-the-road and largely dismantled long before the transfer of registrations to DVLC, and other than the number plates themselves I have no documentary proof of the registration it carried. I am largely resigned to the fact that it will not be possible to recover the original registration when the day finally comes that it is once again a vehicle rather than a pile of parts. I keep hoping to find some form of supporting evidence.

I think that the most likely explanation for the 1980 date of first registration for the OP's vehicle is that the registration issued on demob was never transferred to DVLC due to the vehicle being off-the-road with the result that the registration was lost, and that some time later the vehicle was put back on the road and was issued with a new age-related registration. It cannot have been registered with DVLC prior to 1980 since it would not have a 1980 DOFR if it had been.

It is unlikely that the demob registration was transferred off by a money-grabbing Philistine and an age-related was issued in 1980 to replace it, since DVLC would have know that it was previously registered and it would have retained the original DOFR.   

Offline scimart

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #23 - Jun 20, 2022 - 00:21
Yes - I’ve checked my logbooks and the only one marked as non-transferable is a motorbike in my name since 1971 but not on the DVLA register until I restored it around 1999.


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Offline antarmike

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Re: My Vehicle history. Help Needed
Reply #24 - Jun 20, 2022 - 06:10

I think that the most likely explanation for the 1980 date of first registration for the OP's vehicle is that the registration issued on demob was never transferred to DVLC due to the vehicle being off-the-road with the result that the registration was lost, and that some time later the vehicle was put back on the road and was issued with a new age-related registration. It cannot have been registered with DVLC prior to 1980 since it would not have a 1980 DOFR if it had been.

It is unlikely that the demob registration was transferred off by a money-grabbing Philistine and an age-related was issued in 1980 to replace it, since DVLC would have know that it was previously registered and it would have retained the original DOFR.

I thought the Military vehicle/ demob theory had been disproven.  Military vehicles would have gone straight through from Rover to the miltary.  They would not have gone through a dealer in Bedford.

When a vehicle is given a replacement registration after cherished transfer, the original registration date IS REPLACED, on the V5C by the date the replacement registration was issued.

I own ex RGC 911 . It is known to have been supplied to MoS, so the RGC reg would have been issued in 1955.

RGC 911 was transferred off the vehicle and replacement reg XSK 452 allocated. The date of first registration on the V5C is 01 06 1979.

The new registration mark, a  previously unissued Scottish registration, is marked as "non Transferrable"

This seems a direct parallel to the OP's vehicle history.   No Military service,  It once had a different registration mark allocated in 1956 having been sold in Bedford by a motor dealer,  this registration was transferred off the vehicle in 1980 and a new non transferable previously inissued scottish reg was allocated as non transferrable and now the date this new reg was issued is shown as the first registration  date.





 

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