Not starting...sort of...

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Offline Windybuffer

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Not starting...sort of...
- Apr 29, 2021 - 16:43
Alright.....I have just finished installing new piston rings and Con rod bearings (top and bottom).
I buttoned it all back up.

Before I did this, I had really pretty good start up and drivability....just way too much smoke, thus the new rings.

Carb had been reconditioned by carb exchange.
Distributor by the Dr.

So....since putting everything back together, hereís the deal.  It wonít run at all like it did before the rings.

1.  Pull choke full on, push button.....no start
2.  Pull choke half on, push button.....no start
3.  Pull choke full on, push accelerator pedal half way, and I get a really lumpy start most times, that evens out and idles for awhile, then when warm usually dies.
4.  If while warming up I push the accelerator pedal down pretty hard, I can get quite a bit of backfire through the carb....now getting some black residue around the top of the carb......actually got a bit of a flame on one try.

It feels like a carb issue to me...but not sure....odd that before I did the rings, there was no problem.

I did put the inlet manifold back together with only the paper gasket, where before I had previously used a little blue hylomar with the paper...not sure that matters.....

Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated!




"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline Bruce

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #1 - Apr 29, 2021 - 17:03
How old is the fuel?
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Offline Windybuffer

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #2 - Apr 29, 2021 - 17:19
Bruce, about a month possibly two....
"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline tonyg

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #3 - Apr 29, 2021 - 18:19
Evening Windy buffer,
Assuming that you have not removed timing chain etc, and the carb and dizzy was removed and replaced complete, I would personally double check the ignition leads are on the spark plugs in the correct sequence ( perhaps put a photo on so that one could heckle)? 1342 is anti clockwise, not clockwise..yep done that.
Check the inlet valve clearances? Preferably with a dial test indicator but feelers gauges are ok.
If you used the rule of 9 then use the other 360 crankshaft turn method, just to not repeat any mistake.
Yep, guess who cannot count to 9.
Then I would check the carb float is not stuck, I have had a problem when the carb is upside down/ sideways the float mechanism stuck in the wrong position when upright.
Regards
Tonyg
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Offline Mark Edmunds

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #4 - Apr 29, 2021 - 21:39
Brian

I hate to say this but I sent my Solex to CE several years ago, and although it came back looking shiny they had not opened up all of it and renewed the pump's diaphragm, and other things were not done right.  As a result it failed to enble the engine running lean at all.  Not good with a newly refurbished Spreadbore by Cox and Turner....

I do know that some people have had a good experience with CE though.

Hope you get it all sorted...

Mark
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Offline Windybuffer

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #5 - Apr 30, 2021 - 20:42
Tony, thanks for the suggestions!
1.  1342 is what I have.
2.  Pulled the carb apart, float is clean and unstuck.
3.  I will check the valve clearances next

Mark, I had heard that too, however, I bought a carb from them, and it has all new bits inside, and nice and clean....it was working great before the new rings.

Reading a bit more now....I will do a compression test, as I have read similar issues with people who have blown the head gasket, although itís brand new.....I suppose something might have happened to it......
"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline Windybuffer

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #6 - Apr 30, 2021 - 20:46
Drove to the petrol station today, maybe a mile away.  Barely made it there.....in fourth gear it was not getting good power....every so often it would clear up for 2 seconds.....I pretty much drifted into the pump at the station.
No backfiring though, just really rough and lumpy feeling with very little power.

Started it up by applying throttle half way and made it home.....kept it in third though as it seemed to not want to die there.

Gotta say though, the new rings have certainly taken care of my smoking problem....now if I could just get it to run like it did before the new rings!
"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline fifty seven

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #7 - Apr 30, 2021 - 20:57
You say you checked carb float. Have you unscrewed the main jet, let fuel flood out and see if the metering aperture is totally unblocked  ? Sounds to me as if there could be  something floating about there , and  partially blocking it.

( I said this to someone else this past week, but never heard if they did even look yet .)
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Offline Mark Edmunds

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #8 - May 01, 2021 - 08:20
Tom's right...check the Needle Valve of your Solex particularly,  since these are susceptible to getting jammed open or shut with crud...go carefully in removing the top cover so that you do not damage the gasket between body and cover...

Check one thing at a time and test till you find the Gremlin, then let us know!

Good luck

Mark
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Offline Windybuffer

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #9 - May 03, 2021 - 15:47
Tom, thanks, I will check that!

In the meantime, I did a cold compression test ( I know, best to do warm, but I was looking for an obvious possibility that the brand new head gasket had blown) as the carb was off, and I got very low compression on one (70), and 0 on number two.   

So....blown head gasket I figured for sure between one and two.

Just opened it up and thereís not a burn through or easy to see problem.

 Now Iím at a real loss.
I do notice that I may have the incorrect head gasket on...could this really give much trouble? ( I realize this may be a really stupid question....)

I believe the correct head gasket would be the type for early 54 engines, with one hole in the center of the head and block.

 The reason I think that I may have the wrong  gasket is that the gasket I have on now,  is for later 55 engines with two holes in the center.  My head only has one large hole in the center and a very small one in the block.

Could this be an issue?

"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline Windybuffer

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #10 - May 03, 2021 - 16:13
Man o man......

1.  I did not torque the head bolts to 35 and 55 like recommended by C&T
2.  I did not torque the rocker shaft bolts to the same torque as the larger bolts.......

Iím thinking maybe the gasket is fine, but my torquing is very suspect.
"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline Mark Edmunds

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #11 - May 03, 2021 - 19:07
Brian -

Your head gasket on the side photographed does not appear to show a leak, but not that clear an image - what is the underside like? 

Perhaps you might need the second pair of eyes from another LRSOC Member in the Glasgow area who is experienced in setting up an original engine, as to not torque up the head properly will lead to more work to rectify your problem?  What are the threads like on your head bolts and the 2 studs that go through the rocker shaft posts - if they have stretched you will need to renew them.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Mark
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Offline Windybuffer

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #12 - May 04, 2021 - 15:56
Mark, thanks for taking a look, I appreciate your opinion!

Fifty seven-  Good call on the main jet....I pulled it out, cleaned it, blew air through it.  I also took out the needle valve and did the same....it was indeed stuck like Mark mentioned....cleaned it up and itís moving now!

Also cleaned up the head, and decided to reinstall it, with properly torqued settings, not from the workshop manual, But Cox and Turnerís suggestions, remembering of course to do up the rocker bolts too!

Mark- My threads and bolts are all very clean and tight!

I put it all back together today, said a little prayer,  and it fired up right away on the choke.  Took the choke off after about 5 minutes and it is peacefully idling right now.  And...almost no smoke...the hone and rings did it!

Thanks guys for the help.....although I did too many things at once, your suggestions helped steer me to the right items!!
"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline fifty seven

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #13 - May 04, 2021 - 17:05
Great news.  It's usually the simple things..the ones that don't actually break !  Glad its purring away happily now.
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Offline Mark Edmunds

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #14 - May 04, 2021 - 17:53
Brian -

Glad it was crud in the Needle Valve in the Solex...I had one occasion when this part had miraculously came completely undone (a new valve with suspect thread) just as I was rounding Loch Lomond in torrential rain, along with horrendous holiday traffic and double white lines...pulled over onto a fortunately wide verge, and set to fault finding.  Thanks to having a signal and the miracle of Tinternet (Facebook as well as this Forum) a couple of judicious posts on Fora, and within 5 minutes I had a few wise people offer me advice.  Having gingerly removed the top cover of the Solex, screwed the Needle Valve back into the top cover, refitted it, I then fired up the Spreadbore straightaway and purred on down to the Lake District for the stopover for Home!  No Yellow Taxi call out, sodden but grinning, and no small dogs were harmed in the entire process!

Enjoy!

Mark
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Offline gertie Moderator

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Re: Not starting...sort of...
Reply #15 - May 04, 2021 - 18:19
Mark who were these wise people?😂
Eveliene 1953 Minerva.

 

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