UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol

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Offline tonyg

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #100 - Sep 07, 2021 - 17:06
Afternoon bods,
One way of actually ending free road tax for older vehicles but not ending free road tax on paper, is the introduction of e10, one is now advised to use optimum...super...ultimate etc at 12p per litre extra.
Hence a 40 litre fill up is now a fiver more....the HMRC have effectively ended free road tax and cheaper motoring in older vehicles eg pre 1997..ie both our nissan prairies, toyota celica gt, and both my 80s  all on the road taxed,mot and insured etc shared between the 2 of us...in addition we have a diesel old school non dpf skoda named greta...a different car for every working day of the week...great fun and very politically incorrect.
Moral pollute more as we will run the diesel more......to stop giving HMRC more.
Its all a tax raising exercise covered by the e10 propaganda, to remove poorer people from the roads.
E20 is coming soon then a long extension lead over every pavement to charge electric cars, but only for those rich enough to afford them including the very expensive insurance.
Regards
Tonyg
Ps our total road tax and comprehensive insurance bill for all 6 cars is cheaper than the insurance bill for the electric Mercedes sitting on the drive next door...
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Offline Bruce

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #101 - Sep 07, 2021 - 17:23
Easy enough to make your own E0 (maybe not in vast quantities.)

Offline fulltilt

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #102 - Sep 07, 2021 - 19:15
Afternoon bods,
One way of actually ending free road tax for older vehicles but not ending free road tax on paper, is the introduction of e10, one is now advised to use optimum...super...ultimate etc at 12p per litre extra.
Hence a 40 litre fill up is now a fiver more....the HMRC have effectively ended free road tax and cheaper motoring in older vehicles eg pre 1997..ie both our nissan prairies, toyota celica gt, and both my 80s  all on the road taxed,mot and insured etc shared between the 2 of us...in addition we have a diesel old school non dpf skoda named greta...a different car for every working day of the week...great fun and very politically incorrect.
Moral pollute more as we will run the diesel more......to stop giving HMRC more.
Its all a tax raising exercise covered by the e10 propaganda, to remove poorer people from the roads.
E20 is coming soon then a long extension lead over every pavement to charge electric cars, but only for those rich enough to afford them including the very expensive insurance.
Regards
Tonyg
Ps our total road tax and comprehensive insurance bill for all 6 cars is cheaper than the insurance bill for the electric Mercedes sitting on the drive next door...

Yes , you have just about got it IMHO there will be no loose trailing leads over footways . there may be electric cables under the footway to pedestal sockets for private usage , more probably under road cables to charging points for general public use that you will not always be able to use & charge your car in front of your own house.   I believe in Santa Clause  - so I don't believe the working class will be prevented from using a electric car unless they have a private drive to install their charge point.

Offline fifty seven

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #103 - Sep 14, 2021 - 10:09
We could do well to think carefully about the consequence the 'oil free' future being hoped for , and now planned for us all....?

Does it take this rather cynical  look at some hard truths...to remind us?

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=winJj-1Q3uk&ab_channel=GaryS
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Offline philpjread

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E10 petrol
Reply #104 - Sep 14, 2021 - 15:23
Anybody tried using E10 petrol, with or without additives? If so how did the motor run?

Offline msm80

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #105 - Sep 14, 2021 - 15:24
We could do well to think carefully about the consequence the 'oil free' future being hoped for , and now planned for us all....?

Does it take this rather cynical  look at some hard truths...to remind us?

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=winJj-1Q3uk&ab_channel=GaryS

Nice one Tom!
Although I can accept a change is coming and indeed support it to some degree, however sadly the ignorance of the Greta Iceberg youth to understand how the manufacture of everything they depend is largely oil based is scaringly lacking!

I fear we are reaching a critical mass in global population far quicker than anyone dared think before and that is the nub of the problem.

Then there are the silly idiot protesters that clog motorways causing miles and miles of engines stuck in tickover which is beyond belief :shakinghead:. As a famous PM once said we’ve had it too easy for too long! :znaika:
M
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Offline rws

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Re: E10 petrol
Reply #106 - Sep 14, 2021 - 15:36
Used E10 at the weekend approximately 90 mls with Millers  ESVP added went like a rocket


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Offline 8590

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Re: E10 petrol
Reply #107 - Sep 14, 2021 - 15:49
Should that read Millers  VSPe? I read somewhere that one of the worst things about E10 was that if the vehicle was left standing for long periods without use that it absorbs water which can collect in the bottom of the fuel tank. A lot of former Soviet Eastern Europe had much higher levels of Ethanol than 10% & a lot of pretty ancient design engines that all ran fine on it. So who knows really.

regards

Chris

Offline GunnarTM

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #108 - Sep 14, 2021 - 16:07
I'm a coldly rational analytical type, and couldn't agree more with Malcolm's observations.

Assuming that total CO2 emissions are the driving force behind the undeniable greenhouse effect (a term that's fallen into disuse although it's likely most accurate vs. "climate change" and/or "global warming"), here's some eye-opening data https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/09/Emissions-by-sector-%E2%80%93-pie-charts.png .  Protests against internal combustion engines are going after the low-hanging fruit of road and air transportation, but they're only 11.9% and 1.9%, respectively.  We need to be concentrating on the other 86.2%.  Fun (?) fact:  One-third of all the food produced in the world for human consumption is lost or wasted.  That's 1.3 billion (!) tons of food, and 8% of global greenhouse gas emissions; were food loss a country, it would be the the third-largest emitter after China and the US.

On the population front, my company's Global Demographics Fund people presented some world population demographics slides that're food for thought https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth .  As living standards continue to improve, the world will likely be close to zero population growth by the end of the century; however, there's still another >+50% stage for population growth from 7.4 billion today to 11.2 billion, or another 3.8 billion people on the Earth .  China has 1.4 billion people and India has 1.3 billion, so imagine the world with the equivalent of *another* present-day China plus *another* present-day India's worth of people.  But that's the medium forecast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth ; there are signs that birthrates are already slowing enough such that a UN high case of 16-17 billion just isn't going to happen, and that the peak could actually be more like the UN low case of 8-9 billion or "only" +20% from today at the high end, which would "only" be another China https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46118103 .  Either way, it's going to be hot, flat, and crowded https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot,_Flat,_and_Crowded .
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Offline anthall

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #109 - Sep 14, 2021 - 17:16
As a note, I happened to be filling up when a team of chaps were slapping E10 stickers on the pumps at my local stop. I quizzed them about it and their response was that they were sticking everything, even though the E10 wasn't actually in the tanks as yet. They declined to say when the pumps would actually dispense E10, which is fair, as they were sticker technicians only...

Offline rws

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Re: E10 petrol
Reply #110 - Sep 14, 2021 - 17:21
Yes it was VSPE for the politically  correct still ran ok though


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Offline Cheshire Steve

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Re: E10 petrol
Reply #111 - Sep 14, 2021 - 17:46
I have just fitted SAE J30 R9 fuel lines on mine, so they will be E10 proof. My main concern is that the stoichiometric ratio for E10 is 14.1:1, whereas straight petrol is 14.7:1. The ethanol contains oxygen, so if you keep the same jetting it will run lean. However its a small difference (4%), and if you allow for the fact E10 is a bit more dense, then maybe 3%. Mine already seems lean in the mid range though, so I am a little anxious about it. Which reminds me, I must have a look at my float needle as that has stuck a couple of times and I only put the engine in a few months ago, maybe my cheap imitation carb has some parts that don't even like E5 - the engine had been in my shed for many years before I rebuilt it, so the carb probably pre-dates E5.

More of a concern is that even my 2005 Lexus is not E10 compatible. In fact the S1 is the only vehicle I have that might run on E10.

Offline fulltilt

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #112 - Sep 15, 2021 - 15:51
I'm a coldly rational analytical type, and couldn't agree more with Malcolm's observations.

Assuming that total CO2 emissions are the driving force behind the undeniable greenhouse effect (a term that's fallen into disuse although it's likely most accurate vs. "climate change" and/or "global warming"), here's some eye-opening data https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/09/Emissions-by-sector-%E2%80%93-pie-charts.png .  Protests against internal combustion engines are going after the low-hanging fruit of road and air transportation, but they're only 11.9% and 1.9%, respectively.  We need to be concentrating on the other 86.2%.  Fun (?) fact:  One-third of all the food produced in the world for human consumption is lost or wasted.  That's 1.3 billion (!) tons of food, and 8% of global greenhouse gas emissions; were food loss a country, it would be the the third-largest emitter after China and the US.

On the population front, my company's Global Demographics Fund people presented some world population demographics slides that're food for thought https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth .  As living standards continue to improve, the world will likely be close to zero population growth by the end of the century; however, there's still another >+50% stage for population growth from 7.4 billion today to 11.2 billion, or another 3.8 billion people on the Earth .  China has 1.4 billion people and India has 1.3 billion, so imagine the world with the equivalent of *another* present-day China plus *another* present-day India's worth of people.  But that's the medium forecast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth ; there are signs that birthrates are already slowing enough such that a UN high case of 16-17 billion just isn't going to happen, and that the peak could actually be more like the UN low case of 8-9 billion or "only" +20% from today at the high end, which would "only" be another China https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46118103 .  Either way, it's going to be hot, flat, and crowded https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot,_Flat,_and_Crowded .

If so much food is being wasted , then one answer would be to stop a practice now used for 100 years  (as well as urea) , the spreading of ammonium nitrate fertilizer , present production takes approx.  1% of North Sea  (the German Sea)  natural gas.   Scavenging the wells by condensate reinjection - to get the oil  - you flare the gas or take it.  Now the Greens are politico in Scotland - this is going to be fun , presently on Tyneside is an experiment to adulterate NG with 10% nitrogen (as if it were £ free) , just your cooker flame colour will be more like back to Mund gas.

Offline tonyg

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #113 - Sep 15, 2021 - 17:04
Evening bods,
As per Autorovers suggestion in another posting, I have changed the main jet to 107.5 from 105 on my +40 thou bored 1595, about a year ago....2000 miles....runs well on e5 not yet tried e10, but may stay on 97 stuff.
Regards
Tonyg

Offline tonyg

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #114 - Sep 15, 2021 - 19:01
Amendment to above post, should read
          from 107.5 to 110

Offline nickuk

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #115 - Sep 15, 2021 - 19:33
Just found this Delphi link to an easy way to test for alcohol in petrol.

I think better apparatus and/or larger quantities of fuel would be easier to read but seems safe and simple.

https://www.delphiautoparts.com/gbr/en/resource-center/how-test-alcohol-content-gasoline

I guess the top part of the sample can go back in the tank!

Now we can know how much alcohol there actually is in the fuel we buy!

Nick.
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Offline fulltilt

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #116 - Sep 15, 2021 - 22:23
Just found this Delphi link to an easy way to test for alcohol in petrol.

I think better apparatus and/or larger quantities of fuel would be easier to read but seems safe and simple.

https://www.delphiautoparts.com/gbr/en/resource-center/how-test-alcohol-content-gasoline

I guess the top part of the sample can go back in the tank!

Now we can know how much alcohol there actually is in the fuel we buy!

Nick.

I think my wife is about to loose one of her Pyrex measuring jugs   ;D

Offline Plankton

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #117 - Sep 16, 2021 - 10:38
At the risk of being flippant this technique has been raised in the classic motorcycle world. The ethanol dissolved in the water. Poor off the de ethanoled petrol and use in your classic then drink the ethanolled water as a cocktail.
(Best not to really)

Offline scimart

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UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #118 - Sep 16, 2021 - 12:32
Might not hurt to include regular draining of the tank (when low) in the maintenance schedule. Recovered fuel could be left to stand to check for water and clean fuel replaced in the tank.


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Offline antarmike

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #119 - Sep 17, 2021 - 11:21
This from the Daily Express.  I was particularly amused at the photo showing petrol additive being poured into the engine oil filler.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1492351/e10-fuel-changes-update-petrol-car-additives?fbclid=IwAR1C1gQ94zb94Sgu6GxC-iqi-NNW2pWMbIb7twWuRo5kbYwahycZ6dXXP6M


Offline philpjread

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #120 - Sep 17, 2021 - 15:49
Went for a run out yesterday. In our local market town Skipton, I could not buy E5, Morrisons dont sell it and although Tesco do, they did not have any, evidentally supply is short and when Tesco do get E5 in it sells out straight away. I had to travel in the opposite direction to Settle where the COOP sell E5 £145.9 per litre  OUCH!!!!

Offline gertie Moderator

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #121 - Sep 17, 2021 - 17:57
Filled up with super unleaded at Sainsbury’s Ripley today £1.36.9 a litre.
That is the cheapest i have found.

Offline Gritstoner

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Re: UK Government announce introduction of E10 petrol
Reply #122 - Sep 18, 2021 - 09:56
Went for a run out yesterday. In our local market town Skipton, I could not buy E5, Morrisons dont sell it and although Tesco do, they did not have any, evidentally supply is short and when Tesco do get E5 in it sells out straight away. I had to travel in the opposite direction to Settle where the COOP sell E5 £145.9 per litre  OUCH!!!!

You can't be far from me, I'm in Barnoldswick.  The Texaco station opposite Rolls still has the E5 stickers on the pumps, no E10 markings, admittedly they may not have put them yet on but they have super unleaded available.

 

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