An interesting conundrum....

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Offline Windybuffer

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An interesting conundrum....
- Jan 03, 2021 - 21:20
Conundrum:  A confusing and difficult problem or question.


Ok....here we go.  Time to start the new year off with a good one.


Yes....I have searched this topic on the forum and no....I donít see a similar thread. (However...I am young to the club and am sure that I will soon be corrected, which I would be glad to have happen, because this is the path to wisdom.)


1.  We are talking about the oil filter housing for a 1955 86Ē. 
2.  I believe it to be the original housing and mounting to the engine.


About a week ago, after running the engine on and off and dealing with the white/ blue smoke.....whilst idling for a few seconds, I heard a loud spurting liquid sound....
Looking underneath the running vehicle I found a copious amount of engine oil shooting onto the ground.


It was coming from the oil filter housing.


A.  I tried re-tightening the bolt.  No go.
B.  I read forum posts and was sure that I did not have an old, super hard seal in the groove.   I was wrong.  I did. 
C.  I removed it, and replaced with a new seal.  No go....oil all over...lots of it.
D.  The squirt or gush of oil was not isolated to one area of the mounting....it would change from side to side.  There is no visible cracks or chips in the mounting. 
D1:  The tightening bolt is not bent, neither is the housing.
E.  Then....the below pictures occurred.  What appears to have happened is the the housing slammed down on the tightening nut with such force that it cut through the little metal washer that holds the rubber seal and the remainder was almost flush with the top of the tightening nut.


So.....I would not think there should be this much force of oil pressure in the filter housing to cause such a thing....but I could be wrong....is something else going on that I can not account for?  Thus....the conundrum.......









"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline george8406

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #1 - Jan 03, 2021 - 22:35
Sounds to me to be the large O ring that seals the canister either damaged or missing ?
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Online nickuk

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #2 - Jan 03, 2021 - 23:00
Is it not simply that with the old seal in the top groove it was necessary to tighten the nut too much (perhaps on several occasions and without any give in the top seal) and that cut the rubber and then damaged the steel washer?


Perhaps I misunderstand what you are telling us - if so sorry!


Nick
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Online autorover1

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #3 - Jan 03, 2021 - 23:22
I would think it has been overtightened too often over the years and it has just let go. I am sure its not oil pressure that has done it. Oil pressure builds as you start the engine, there is no sudden pressure increase  like a valve suddenly opening given a pressure knock.
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Offline Windybuffer

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #4 - Jan 04, 2021 - 12:54
I appreciate your responses, thank you.   I am encouraged but the knowledge that it is not oil pressure.....I had thought this was a long shot....but Iím not very schooled in engine management.


The over tightening theory makes a lot of sense, and I think that I have caused some of the problem...my canister is now quite dented at the top, inward. 


Last night I took off the adapter for the oil filter from the engine and cleaned it thoroughly...it wasnít bad and there was no crud inside causing any blockage. 


My current questions....
1.  Was it likely over tightening that somehow created my leak in the first place....again the bolt appears un bent and the canister is round and the mating surface is flat and even all around.  I did notice that the hole at the end of the canister was not round, but quite ovalish. 


2.  Is it worth repairing my canister and bolt by welding?  I have not looked around much....but the canister and bolt donít seem to be an easy item to find.....am I wrong?  Has anyone else recently replaced this item?


Again, thanks for the help!
"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Online nickuk

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #5 - Jan 04, 2021 - 13:54
Guesses!


Leak started when the washer(s) started to give way and were not fixed by re-tightening as the steel failed. If the hole is oval then the cannister will not have tightened up evenly and less likely to seal well.


Yes to the cannister if you mean the coned end and if the other end is excellent.


The bolt is not under great stress - repair probably possible but replacement better if you can get one - you will need a properly shaped washer and seal anyway.


Nick.
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Online autorover1

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #6 - Jan 04, 2021 - 14:00
 Original was superseded by  90513591 , used on the car engines, same filter element, which I believe unbolts from the top, stops the oil running down your arm when unbolting .  Land Rover Ser 3 2.6 Petrol OIL FILTER HOUSING UNIT GEN NEW OLD STOCK 90513591 ę Car Spares & Parts Ė CM Motorspares
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Offline daleradford Trade (Legend Advertiser)

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #7 - Jan 04, 2021 - 14:27
I may have a spare oil filter housing, will dig it out.


Dale

Offline uppity

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #8 - Jan 04, 2021 - 20:59
I have known the above scenario be caused by forgetting to remove the oil seal before fittinng the new one. The slot it then not deep enough to seat the canister and and irritating leak occurs leading to repeated tightening of the bolt, which could eventually lead to a problem such as yours.
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Offline Dpaz

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #9 - Jan 04, 2021 - 22:02
Uppity, like when you pull one seal out, put another in and it leaks. then you find there were two rings in all along!

I thought oil running down your arm was a normal part of an oil change, gaffer tape your cuff. Getting the can back when full of new oil can be fun too.
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Online nickuk

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #10 - Jan 04, 2021 - 22:49
And should you prefer, Brexit import VAT permitting Heystee in Arnhem do a nice spin on filter conversion for 45 Euros that probably is a direct replacement for the whole unit.


Nick.
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Offline Windybuffer

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #11 - Jan 05, 2021 - 11:31
Nickuk and uppity......I think that based on the fact that indeed I did have another washer that I swore I didnít have, and that the hole is oval, not round....I tightened too far and messed the whole thing up.  You live.....you learn!


Autorover1...thanks for that link and the info...that might come in handy!


Dale.....wow...if you have one that would be great, I would love that....let me know what you find!!


Nickuk.......I had considered the spin on type, but Iíd love to keep the original type if possible......it may not be, so I appreciate the info on that!
"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline daleradford Trade (Legend Advertiser)

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #12 - Jan 05, 2021 - 14:37
spare oil filter housing.

Offline albion1938

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #13 - Jan 05, 2021 - 16:28
Probably worth a mention. When I first got my spreadbore-engined 80 on the road after over 30 years laying in my garage the filter leaked, tightened the bolt as much as I dared but it still leaked, so I replaced the filter and washers again taking the housing off the engine to be sure of getting the washer seated right, still no different, and oil was seeping from other places such as the oil switch and the rocker feed pipe despite fitting new washers everywhere. On investigating it turned out the pressure relief valve was jammed shut so the oil pressure was way too high. Freed it off and reset it, no more leaks.
Bernard
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Offline daleradford Trade (Legend Advertiser)

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #14 - Jan 05, 2021 - 16:55
Yes maybe good to take out the steel ball from the pressure relief valve and give it a clean.

Offline Windybuffer

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #15 - Jan 05, 2021 - 20:31
Dale!  I'll take it....send me a PM and I'll pay you for it!


Albion 1938....that's a good call.....although I have no idea where the pressure relief valve is......I'll have to research that....it could be my issue too...this engine sat for many. many years......



"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline Geoff and Vanessa

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #16 - Jan 05, 2021 - 21:10

You'll find a copy of the " Workshop Manual " most informative  :tiphat:

Offline Windybuffer

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #17 - Jan 05, 2021 - 21:12
Ouch......I had that coming didnít I?   ;D
Index....here I come!
"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline daleradford Trade (Legend Advertiser)

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #18 - Jan 05, 2021 - 21:20
PM sent.
The pressure relief valve is just behind the starter motor, has a big lock nut and a small square head on the adjustment part.

Offline Geoff and Vanessa

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #19 - Jan 05, 2021 - 21:22
 Well someone was going to say it I suppose  :tic:

 You will however find it invaluable as of course is the spare parts catalogue  :tiphat:

 Several sources, Club Shop for repro copies, Ebay for similar and or original publications and Google for the free PDF copies.

Offline Windybuffer

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #20 - Jan 05, 2021 - 22:27
Found it, page 24 of the parts catalogue!
Thanks much !
"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline daleradford Trade (Legend Advertiser)

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #21 - Jan 05, 2021 - 22:37
Take number 25 & 26 out, then put the screw part back in the block, turn over on the start motor ( do not run the engine ) the oil pressure will help get the steel ball out.

Offline Windybuffer

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #22 - Jan 09, 2021 - 19:02
Bernard and Dale, thank you for the idea about the pressure relief valve.....Iím going to try that out and make sure that it is clean and working.


Dale got the package, thanks!  Itís all cleaned up, painted and installed.......I will use your advice for freeing off the steel ball!


Brian
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"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline Windybuffer

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #23 - Jan 10, 2021 - 16:03
Amazingly, after soaking in a little PlusGas for a couple days, the pressure relief valve nut came right off.


The ball was indeed stuck in there, and I used Daleís method...after doing that...it came loose and right out!


Thanks again team!
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"RT" 1955  S1 86"

Offline Windybuffer

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Re: An interesting conundrum....
Reply #24 - Jan 11, 2021 - 21:53
That did the trick!  Ran it for about a half hour and no oil spurting out all over!

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"RT" 1955  S1 86"

 

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