Land Rover Series One Club

General Section => General Forum => Topic started by: pdes on Jun 11, 2021 - 17:22

Title: members prepared to help directory
Post by: pdes on Jun 11, 2021 - 17:22
I was looking back through some old threads and came across a post from Phil Price in 2014.  He was responding to Mark Edmunds' woes in trying to fix problems when in remote locations.  It was suggested that there could have been a directory of like-minded S1ers who would be willing to assist a stranded colleague.  However, the idea was shelved as it was felt that such a list would contravene the European Data Protection legislation. So, now we are not part of the EU, could the idea be resurrected?  Although I am no expert, I would be happy to help another member should they be stranded.  Often it's helpful to just have someone else with whom to bounce ideas.

If the collation and maintenance of such a register is still seen as a problem, would it circumvent the issue by someone holding the register privately rather than it be owned the a business?  (the Club!).
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: Graeme on Jun 11, 2021 - 17:53
I'd be pleased to be listed for the East Cleveland/Whitby area, but I'm not volunteering to set it up just at present!!
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: Trakgrip on Jun 11, 2021 - 18:36
For many years in the early days of the Club we had just such a register (mind you that was before the Internet had been invented, so it was a while back)!
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: fifty seven on Jun 11, 2021 - 18:52
I suspect the world has "turned" since those halcyon days when so many simply extended  trust and respect to other owners of Series Ones. It is sad.

The world turned and the thing no one wanted which sat in the long grass behind the barn, under the hedgerow  or even behind other vehicles in the corner of a nondescript farm building  would be gone overnight if the home location of the person who owned it was ever widely known. This happens every week to old Land Rovers now.

So unless some magic spell is woven to create a cloak of invulnerability around our cherished  wagons, I doubt many insurers of series one wagons would like us to begin to tell all and sundry on the www. where things we might own are most likely to be found.
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: alan reid on Jun 11, 2021 - 22:55
Sad but true. maybe just a mobile phone no. and a general location might work ?
I suspect the world has "turned" since those halcyon days when so many simply extended  trust and respect to other owners of Series Ones. It is sad.

The world turned and the thing no one wanted which sat in the long grass behind the barn, under the hedgerow  or even behind other vehicles in the corner of a nondescript farm building  would be gone overnight if the home location of the person who owned it was ever widely known. This happens every week to old Land Rovers now.

So unless some magic spell is woven to create a cloak of invulnerability around our cherished  wagons, I doubt many insurers of series one wagons would like us to begin to tell all and sundry on the www. where things we might own are most likely to be found.

Sent from my SM-A515F using LRSOC mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89330)

Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: pdes on Jun 11, 2021 - 23:05
Sad but true. maybe just a mobile phone no. and a general location might work ?
Sent from my SM-A515F using LRSOC mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89330)
Those were my thoughts. There would be no need to reveal home locations.  Also the use of "what three words" could be encouraged so that any need for assistance location info would be private between both parties.  Maybe I am being too simplistic but I would draw comfort on a trip knowing experience and support was at the end of the phone.



Sent from my SM-G975F using LRSOC mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89330)

Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: antarmike on Jun 11, 2021 - 23:23
Erm?  Am I missing something?  Can't people in need simply put a plea for help, either on here, on the LRSOC FB group, and hopefully someone will get back to them.

The paperlist I remember was before the internet as already pointed out and in those days there was no way of putting out a cry for help.

Nowadays we all tend to look regularly at our phones to see what is happening on the net, do we not?

A register of people who can help, may tell you if somneone is prepared to help if they can, but it won't tell you if they are 15 miles from homes, going round Tescos with a trolley full of Frozen food, that have to get home and put in the freezer before it starts to thaw.

I would have thought a post titled "urgent assistance required" would be seen by anybody who is in a position to help.

We might be willing to help, but at work doing a 8 till 5 job and at best it'll be hours before you can get away from commitment to your boss.

If the cry for help is not responded to, it is probably because anyone in the area , however willing to help, is not in a position where they can.

Is it really any better having a "register" of people who are willing to help, then having to ring people in turn to find someone who isn't at home with the baby since their partner is working nights, or has just got back from the pub ratfaced, and isn't safe to drive.?

If a cry for help is read by someone local and they are free to respond, they will do.  If they are not free, they won't respond, but if they were rung as a name on a list, they would still have to say, "Sorry, Mate,  I have other commitments at the moment,  pity you didn't ring last night because I wasn't the kids birthday party yesterday, and I was't out having a happy meal withg the kids.....

You might guess I feel there is no poinbt or advantage in having a list of volunteers......

I am paid up, any vehicle I am with, passenger or driver, recovered from anywhere to home member of RAC and that seems far more certain way of getting help!

Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: B.S.F. on Jun 11, 2021 - 23:36
 Why do people expect to break down ?
.W.
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: tankman on Jun 12, 2021 - 09:33
 
      Think I still have my booklet.
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: landie57 on Jun 12, 2021 - 09:45
The relevant legislation covering collection, retention and sharing of data is the General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR)
 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation
Title: members prepared to help directory
Post by: scimart on Jun 12, 2021 - 10:24
Quote from: pdes link=topic=41600.msg326206#

However, the idea was shelved as it was felt that such a list would contravene the European Data Protection legislation. So, now we are not part of the EU, could the idea be resurrected?


When we left the EU, all existing legislation was adopted into UK law so unless or until a law is passed repealing or modifying GDPR, nothing has changed.


Sent from my iPhone using LRSOC (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89330)
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: GunnarTM on Jun 12, 2021 - 12:12
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-transition-period/data-protection-now-the-transition-period-has-ended/the-gdpr/


Sent from my iPhone using LRSOC (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89330)
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: Willerby on Jun 12, 2021 - 12:24
We got there in the end. :)

The issue is not really data protection although anyone (business or personal) who sets up a database of any personal data (eg. a name and a phone number) is subject to GDPR requirements, in simple terms:

- the data must be provided willingly and with the authority of the person concerned which should include what the data will be used for and what it will not be used for
- depending on the purpose of the data, the identity of the person providing it should be checked (to avoid persons providing information on behalf of others without their permission)
- personal data must be kept securely to avoid data being leaked to others
- must not be passed to any business or person unless the person whose data it is has given permission to do so.

It would be releatively simple to meet all of these with rudimentary web knowledge and a few forms asking for the data and the permission. But here is the rub. There is another GDPR requirement.

- Personal data held must be kept up to date.

Frankly, this is a huge admin job extending into the future for no real benefit. Any list of phone numbers with locations will never be as long as the list of people on Facebook or on the forum so a post asking for help (as suggested by antarmike) will reach far more people, more quickly than any attempt to ring around a few local members. And it requires no boring admin, no additional GDPR hassle, no looking up who lives locally to where you have broken down,  just a smartphone (that you would have needed to call someone anyway).

On top of all that, there is also the security issue of scammers and thieves getting access to the details of 'helpful' Land Rover owners. Any list would be available to anyone, just as the forum is. Imagine if we started a thread called 'Contact Details of Helpful members' and said add your name and telephone number and rough location to this list. How many would really want their telephone number on the web? I get enough scam calls without advertising that I am a helpful soul, willing to trust anyone who says they are having problems.
 
Which is a long winded explanation as to why the club doesn't do this any more. The world has moved on.
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: pdes on Jun 12, 2021 - 12:39
We got there in the end. :)

The issue is not really data protection although anyone (business or personal) who sets up a database of any personal data (eg. a name and a phone number) is subject to GDPR requirements, in simple terms:

- the data must be provided willingly and with the authority of the person concerned which should include what the data will be used for and what it will not be used for
- depending on the purpose of the data, the identity of the person providing it should be checked (to avoid persons providing information on behalf of others without their permission)
- personal data must be kept securely to avoid data being leaked to others
- must not be passed to any business or person unless the person whose data it is has given permission to do so.

It would be releatively simple to meet all of these with rudimentary web knowledge and a few forms asking for the data and the permission. But here is the rub. There is another GDPR requirement.

- Personal data held must be kept up to date.

Frankly, this is a huge admin job extending into the future for no real benefit. Any list of phone numbers with locations will never be as long as the list of people on Facebook or on the forum so a post asking for help (as suggested by antarmike) will reach far more people, more quickly than any attempt to ring around a few local members. And it requires no boring admin, no additional GDPR hassle, no looking up who lives locally to where you have broken down,  just a smartphone (that you would have needed to call someone anyway).

On top of all that, there is also the security issue of scammers and thieves getting access to the details of 'helpful' Land Rover owners. Any list would be available to anyone, just as the forum is. Imagine if we started a thread called 'Contact Details of Helpful members' and said add your name and telephone number and rough location to this list. How many would really want their telephone number on the web? I get enough scam calls without advertising that I am a helpful soul, willing to trust anyone who says they are having problems.
 
Which is a long winded explanation as to why the club doesn't do this any more. The world has moved on.

Q.E.D.   :anbet1:    :D
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: Graeme on Jun 12, 2021 - 14:43
Well put, Peter.  I hereby rescind my enthusiastic posting second on this thread!


Sent from my iPad using LRSOC (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89330)
Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: alan reid on Jun 12, 2021 - 19:42
Z
Well put, Peter.  I hereby rescind my enthusiastic posting second on this thread!


Sent from my iPad using LRSOC (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89330)
Rescindment   ( is that a word ) seconded

Sent from my SM-A515F using LRSOC mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89330)

Title: Re: members prepared to help directory
Post by: strang on Jun 13, 2021 - 12:02
I remember that directory - you could add your level of assistance from full recovery to just offering a cup of tea and sympathy! I was hoping to find someone who could offer a full refurbishment, then I was going to trailer my series one to somewhere nearby, before making a cheeky phone call - it never happened and I had to do it myself  ;D
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal