JLR job losses

[fulltilt]

It is ironic that Ford's Bridgend Works (Producing Engines for Land Rover) is now in trouble , also with staff lay-offs.  Yet  Jim Ratcliffe with his Projekt Grenadier is looking into the suitability of the site.

The  XD  Wolf has been a very good vehicle for the MOD , there was talk of actually 'remounting' conversion of 90" into 110" not so long ago ,  the green fleet is now being sold off.

All the "protected' models of vehicles needed for Afgan.  are hardly suitable to take over some replacement (weighing say 5 tonne to 7 tonne).  Bowman equipped FFR's will be needed for a few more years.

I wonder if the intention is to have a civvy Grenadier for farmers & enthusiasts + a  XD  version to lure the MOD   

[The Pink Toenail]

I think they JLR to think outside the box with new models. Something of practical size like the defender as there current models are virtually un-distinguishable from all the other SUV's...except by the badge. If they came up with said vehicle but taking account of government legislation, cost of fuel, market place readiness to accept alternate and greener fuel sources, etc, such as a truly electrical powered 4x4 with a decent range per charge. Sort of as reliable as the Tesla is getting in the car marketplace. It could be done as a lot of the technology has been developed and proven.

[FHF58]

I think this is what the new Defender should have been, beaten to launch by Rivian.
https://products.rivian.com/
Utility 4x4 very well thought out with lots of storage and utility features.  Volume exists in the vehicle to add a range extending generator too.

[The Pink Toenail]

Did not know about the Rivian Matt.....thanks for that.


Over here what passes for the main news channels appear to be little more than DJT gossip pedlars.....I have to watch BBC America every day to find out whats going on in the rest of the world. Just read up on it......most of the press articles are late Nov 2018 detailing the launch of the vehicles. They are a Michigan based company headed up by MIT graduates.....not yet in production but looks like it will be built in Normal, Illinois at the ex Mitsubishi plant.


https://www.foxnews.com/auto/the-rivian-rt1-may-be-the-american-made-electric-pickup-of-the-near-future


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw



They are offering 2 models (SUV & Truck) with 3 range options (battery pack size) for 200; 300; & 400 mile ranges with prices starting at $69K (£54K) and already taking orders. It has an electric motor on each wheel and can wade through 1 meter of water and is bristling with sensors and cameras and modern technology options.


In my opinion this is exactly where JLR needed to be.



 

[Dollar Bill]

What a great vehicle.


I think in the future, the history books will show that while other countries were forging ahead with new technology, the brits were squabbling amongst each other over brexit. I am not sure if this country will recover.


Denton

[fifty seven]

Probably this thread has been moved along in a direction free of Series One relevance. Refreshing perhaps ... Forum mods can pass judgement ?

But before we think of converting our early Land Rovers to run electric with rechargeable batteries it is well worth remembering the price being levied around the world for this much flaunted technological convenience ? 

British TV seems to have gone rather quiet about pollution and exploitation due to mineral extraction just now. So if you don't understand much German this link to a TV documentary may never enlighten ..The plight of those exploited is disturbing , the environmental consequences in arid areas, wholly relevant for each device that employs the most advanced rechargeable batteries today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0kN81HW8t8&feature=youtu.be
(Mods...if this veers too far off this forum's territory, feel free-please censor. )

[Willerby]

I think the relevance to us all is apparent.

I looked into the costs of converting a Series One to electric, sensing that we have a limited amount of time before this probably becomes a necessity. In my view, costs need to be nearer £5k and the legislative environment re rebuilt historic vehicles needs improving so looks like a few years away.

Ref the Rivian, really interesting. All I’d say is that generally there is little first mover advantage when pushing the boundaries of technology unless you have something truly unique that can’t be copied.

In this case I see a nice product design but one that can be replicated pretty quickly by others when the charging infrastructure is better advanced, standards are in place and the market is viable?


Sent from my iPhone using LRSOC

[FHF58]

Ref the Rivian, really interesting. All I’d say is that generally there is little first mover advantage when pushing the boundaries of technology unless you have something truly unique that can’t be copied.
In this case I see a nice product design but one that can be replicated pretty quickly by others when the charging infrastructure is better advanced, standards are in place and the market is viable?

Electric and Hybrid vehicles have more in common with aircraft than Bicycles.  The engineering and development effort to get the Rivian to it's debut is phenomenal.  Anything can be copied but the important bit is understanding why a hidden or subtle solution was selected over a potentially cheaper one.
A more relevant example might be the Jet engine - the concept is easy to duplicate but know-how such as metallurgy is hard-won.

[philpjread]

It will be interesting to see how long batteries last and what the replacement cost is.

[shropshire lad]

I predict that the cost of LWB Series Ones will increase and the value of 80” will drop when people realise that there is more room in a LWB to fit batteries than a short stumpy 80” . I think I shall start stockpiling 107/109s in time for the rush . I just need to get it passed The Missus as a potential sound investment !

[Bruce]

I predict that the cost of LWB Series Ones will increase and the value of 80” will drop when people realise that there is more room in a LWB to fit batteries than a short stumpy 80” . I think I shall start stockpiling 107/109s in time for the rush . I just need to get it passed The Missus as a potential sound investment !

Easier still. just stockpile Brockhouse trailers as mobile battery packs. In Australia you could tow a complete convoy of them as a "road train".

[shropshire lad]

Easier still. just stockpile Brockhouse trailers as mobile battery packs. In Australia you could tow a complete convoy of them as a "road train".

  I suspect there are more LWBs around than Brockhouses . Still something similar shouldn’t  be too hard to produce .

[C00kie]

This thread makes interesting reading. I'm hoping to start my 80 rebuild in Spring and am looking at electric options. My wife has a Nissan Leaf which does about 80 miles per charge which is perfect toy adequate for her 30 mile commute. I love the thing it just does everything it is supposed to do.

The Rivian looks great but I'd take the Bollinger in preference: https://www.bollingermotors.com In fact when I first saw pictures of it I thought it was another mock up of what the new Defender might look like. Reminds me of a 21st century Mr Wilks might have come up with... Pure utility with mains power sockets in the rear and full length storage for several 2 X 4 timbers courtesy of the opening "radiator" grille.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using LRSOC mobile app

[ike]

Refreshingly "premium" BS-free.  I like this a lot

[msm80]

Probably this thread has been moved along in a direction free of Series One relevance. Refreshing perhaps ... Forum mods can pass judgement ?

But before we think of converting our early Land Rovers to run electric with rechargeable batteries it is well worth remembering the price being levied around the world for this much flaunted technological convenience ? 

British TV seems to have gone rather quiet about pollution and exploitation due to mineral extraction just now.

As an environmental pessimist I quite agree with the sentiment Tom. As usual the media are loading the argument without presenting all the facts either way. Meanwhile the UK slumbers on with few EV's, though to be fair we have another 21years to go!


Lanny Clark's S1 80" conversion in the US used 16 lead acid batteries of current design that while they only gave about a 40mile range and 40mph top speed, the set up seemed totally practicable to me if a bit risky as a friend told me given the number of amps he had under the bonnet and tub floor. What was sensible was the use of readily available technology, that while it might not have a high output for rapid starts and hills I felt sure the motors being used could be better designed for such voltages and set ups rather than exploiting rare earth metals. I no doubt investors will be rushing to invest in Lithium and conductors if they haven't already!


As for pollution news you must have had connections with the BBC. Typically they knee jerk the masses again today now suggesting wood burners are the offenders, no mention of the thousands and thousands of flights spewing Aviation Fuel into the atmosphere every minute of every day while the global population spreads itself willy nilly across the planet. All fossil fuel, that stuff that was locked away over millions of years, the combined stored energy from the sun of which it was made now being released in decades. No surprise something has to give.


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the energy balance of the planet is changing and the weather 'engine' is now responding with dire results as predicted over 30 years ago or more when I studied it at university. HM Government then have the cheek to suggest my little 4kW wood burner is adding to this burden despite burning wood that is totally recyclable in the carbon cycle of the present day because that carbon was easily trapped a few decades ago. But cities do need to control traffic and air miles first before us country folk have to freeze if you are not running on gas or oil (I have a heat pump at least so I feel I am doing my bit). Though it looks like some of us may be denied the right to drive our S1's on logging forays in the near future just so urbanites can breath!


Sadly my German is non-existent as I only made a couple of minutes but I suspect it makes an interesting programme and food for thought for everyone I am sure.


Keep going folks while you can


Malcolm

[linesrg]

Good Evening All,
On the subject of the direction JLR are heading (one assumes there is a plan) I still don't quite fully understand the 'Reborn' programme. I am an enthusiast of the marque but am seriously puzzled by the firm's direction. 
Regards
Richard

[philpjread]

As for pollution news you must have had connections with the BBC. Typically they knee jerk the masses again today now suggesting wood burners are the offenders, no mention of the thousands and thousands of flights spewing Aviation Fuel into the atmosphere every minute of every day while the global population spreads itself willy nilly across the planet. All fossil fuel, that stuff that was locked away over millions of years, the combined stored energy from the sun of which it was made now being released in decades. No surprise something has to give. Keep going folks while you can

Malcolm

From 2009 to 2013 I was working on variouse development projects in former Yugoslav countries, building schools. the prefered method of heating, npromoted by the EU and americans was Wood Pellets .

[fulltilt]

Good Evening All,
On the subject of the direction JLR are heading (one assumes there is a plan) I still don't quite fully understand the 'Reborn' programme. I am an enthusiast of the marque but am seriously puzzled by the firm's direction. 
Regards
Richard

Reborn  =   LR is all for DIY themselves of a 1/2 century old hobby.

The firms direction seems again DIY ,  Solihull missed out on this boat,,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46880937

NB.   No use of the 1980's buzz word(s)    "Common Platform"   new century - people have forgotton.

[Bruce]

Anyone that thinks that EV's are the future in the UK fails to understand just how much electricity we would need to generate to power them. All existing Nuclear plants have a very limited lifespan, and 2 new nuclear plants will now not be built (Wylfa cancelled today). A few more wind farms just ain't going to cut it. Look forward to electricity shortages.

[rodthrutheblock]

Good Evening All,
On the subject of the direction JLR are heading (one assumes there is a plan) I still don't quite fully understand the 'Reborn' programme. I am an enthusiast of the marque but am seriously puzzled by the firm's direction. 
Regards
Richard

Reborn was a great stunt for the 70th anniversary, specially in the absence of a Defender vehicle, but it's not a sustainable business model. Series Ones are oddly complicated to restore (compared to things like Jeeps), the market tiny and parts supply disjointed. JLR have tried to rely on the same cottage industry suppliers that enthusiasts use and apart from some wheels (that sadly aren't faithful copies) they haven't filled the market with parts for us as promised. In fact, the opposite has happened and supply of parts has seriously dwindled. Collectors with big bucks to spend mostly want 'the' model to have i.e. an early 80, and there simply isn't the supply of them either. Perhaps it's time for some 'continuation' early 80s (like the E-Type lightweight programme) or splitting and selling Reborn from the parent company?