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Author Topic: reviving a 1952 80" on the Central Coast of California  (Read 6220 times)

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July 03, 2017 - 04:37
Reply #20

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
New seats and a top... from Exmoor via Rovers North in USA.  Starting to feel pretty pretty nice!
1 Thank you.

January 16, 2019 - 04:24
Reply #21

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
It's been a while since I last updated this.… as I mentioned before the 80" now has a new canvas top and new seats.  The old ones had essentially lost all their foam and weren't original anyway… My dad had them upholstered circa 1970 or so by a VW guy… with VW black basket weave vinyl…. So now we've got new repro green vinyl but they look good… and the original frames and VW reupholstered covers are in a box with all the other original worn out bits.  Good to keep all the original bits I think…. you never know.


A few shots below out on top of the hills near Hollister California… and another at the Beach in Carmel by the Sea.


at the moment the 80" is in for heavy bulkhead surgery..   We pulled it out of the car and a welder friend is tackling a full rebuild of it.  It was pretty bad… really… truly awful.  You know how there's some people who say that rusty areas look like "swiss cheese"??   Well I came up with a new term for the rust type it had… "Pastrami with Swiss"   Thats what the layers of expanding metal looked like in the bulkhead rust areas… layers of pastrami…. and then also holes like swiss cheese.


So my buddy built a jig to hold and locate all the important hinge points and general shape etc… and is now completely rebuilding and replacing the bulkhead with new metal.  He's a real genius with a welder and a sheetmetal brake etc.   


BTW… he is the same fellow who now owns my old lowered series II… theres a recent photo of it too below…. with new black 1960's Porsche steel wheels.


So this is the only, cough, cosmetic, cough, restoration we are going to do to the body.   I may re galvanize the door and hood hinges… Dunno.   I think it's essentially done after we get the bulkhead back together.
2 Thanks.

January 16, 2019 - 04:29
Reply #22

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
here's some more shots of the bulkhead jig set up… and the nasty rust… before cutting up the bulkhead and rebuilding it.
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January 16, 2019 - 04:39
Reply #23

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
these rusted out little nut holders were a bit of a trick to make:
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January 16, 2019 - 04:42
Reply #24

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
Lots of new metal… 


Top of bulkhead removed… and new top of bulkhead mid fabrication…


nice to get rid of all the rusty spots….
1 Thank you.

January 16, 2019 - 04:47
Reply #25

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
bit more detail… not metal finished yet… will get a lot more fiddling before we paint it.
1 Thank you.

August 03, 2019 - 00:31
Reply #26

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
Bulkhead Update etc.…… Summer 2019.




Yes… we could have purchased a new bulkhead… but it just seemed right to fix the original one… despite having to build a jig etc. Plus I couldn't see paying for the freight to ship a bulkhead from the UK to California… YIKES!


I particularly like the patina our Rover has acquired driving through central and south america, Baja, Mexico, and all over back roads of California.  Yes… I know… you guys think it's all Disneyland, Surfers and Silicone Valley here… but there are actually an amazing variety of small roads here… and in Big Sur just north of us… and my dad was a builder… so lots of battle scars from hauling stones, lumber, firewood…  and general working injuries from just being on the job in remote sites day in and day  out.  It was basically treated like a shovel… kept functional… but not fussed over.  (the 21 window VW micro bus was the family car and that's a totally different story)


Patina on a car… to me… (if not too far gone) is like the threshold of an old historic home… it shows the wear of time from the occupants and visitors who have crossed it for however long the house has been there.  If you pull out that threshold and replace it with new unworn… you've killed off the history… and the house now just looks generic and new… minus any character.


SO… in order to keep everything looking copesetic we are going to first paint the welded bulkhead back to the original correct green… and then paint it white over the green that it got painted back in the 1960's in Santa Barbara… and then somehow manage to beat the heck out it and spill coffee, oil, gasoline, whatever onto it and then scrub it with 00000 steel wool until it looks like the rest of the car! With a bit of the green showing through under the (now flat) white.  Wish me luck!


Also… I installed some new perspex side windows and new felts in it.  Purchased from LRSOC shop.  They're quite nice!  Its a joy to see out of the side now… bit like having cataracts removed.  The screws that held in the little metal channels where the felt strips go… well I was a bit worried about getting them out after them sitting there for 60 plus years in the salty fog of Central California.  But glory be to God… some genius used brass screws to hold the little buggers in!  They simply unscrewed… easy peasy… well not perfectly easy because they were all flathead screws…and soft brass… so semi easy peasy..  I replaced with new Philips head brass screws…. somebody somewhere probably hates me for switching them… sorry buddy… Just be glad they don't make allen head or I might have used them.


I spent a few hours scraping the white overspray off the galvanized door top bits… they were sprayed all white… and that was a bit sloppy looking and incorrect.     Good to get the door tops looking spit spot… even if the paint that's left is stained and scratched.   It just looks proper now.    Maybe in a month or so I'll get it all back together…   


Oh… Had to get a horn button too… as my "friend" cracked my original to pieces whilst honking at some girls when I let him drive it. Smacked it a tad too hard. ( Don't ask.)  But HOLY SMOKES… That whole horn button assembly is expensive!  Jeez! I initially decided there was no way in hell I was gonna spend $400US for the damn horn button assembly…. and just put a switch on the dash instead… but after a few hours on the internet eventually found Charlesworth and Sons LTD Plastic Moulders… and got just the button alone for 17.5 pounds sterling. (which thanks to Brexit hoopla means basically free in US dollars (joking here).


ANYWAY…..  What british GENIUS designed the horn button fitment into the steering column.  MY GOD… I doubt they could have made that design any more of a pain in the arse.   IT's like removing the spine out of a living cat. C'Mon guys… go look at a VW… so simple… same operation takes 5 seconds.


Lastly… Is it considered restoration to fix the rust in the bulkhead??… I hope not.  Seems more like proper maintenance to me.  certainly won't look restored.  Kinda worried it will feel a bit like "faux" patina on the bulkhead… gonna have to really work to properly muck that bit back into balance with the rest of the "Wabi Sabi" (look it up) body.
1 Thank you.

August 03, 2019 - 02:24
Reply #27

Offline B.S.F.

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Queensland, Australia
Bulkhead Update etc.…… Summer 2019.

ANYWAY…..  What british GENIUS designed the horn button fitment into the steering column.  MY GOD… I doubt they could have made that design any more of a pain in the arse.   IT's like removing the spine out of a living cat.



Could have been  the same person that  designed the vent levers on the 54-58 model.
.W.

August 03, 2019 - 06:22
Reply #28

Offline KAC 87

  • LRSOC & LR Register Member
  • KAC 87 - at least I thought I'd finished her!
  • Location: Cheshire
Bulkhead Update etc.…… Summer 2019.




Yes… we could have purchased a new bulkhead… but it just seemed right to fix the original one… despite having to build a jig etc. Plus I couldn't see paying for the freight to ship a bulkhead from the UK to California… YIKES!


I particularly like the patina our Rover has acquired driving through central and south america, Baja, Mexico, and all over back roads of California.  Yes… I know… you guys think it's all Disneyland, Surfers and Silicone Valley here… but there are actually an amazing variety of small roads here… and in Big Sur just north of us… and my dad was a builder… so lots of battle scars from hauling stones, lumber, firewood…  and general working injuries from just being on the job in remote sites day in and day  out.  It was basically treated like a shovel… kept functional… but not fussed over.  (the 21 window VW micro bus was the family car and that's a totally different story)


Patina on a car… to me… (if not too far gone) is like the threshold of an old historic home… it shows the wear of time from the occupants and visitors who have crossed it for however long the house has been there.  If you pull out that threshold and replace it with new unworn… you've killed off the history… and the house now just looks generic and new… minus any character.


SO… in order to keep everything looking copesetic we are going to first paint the welded bulkhead back to the original correct green… and then paint it white over the green that it got painted back in the 1960's in Santa Barbara… and then somehow manage to beat the heck out it and spill coffee, oil, gasoline, whatever onto it and then scrub it with 00000 steel wool until it looks like the rest of the car! With a bit of the green showing through under the (now flat) white.  Wish me luck!


Also… I installed some new perspex side windows and new felts in it.  Purchased from LRSOC shop.  They're quite nice!  Its a joy to see out of the side now… bit like having cataracts removed.  The screws that held in the little metal channels where the felt strips go… well I was a bit worried about getting them out after them sitting there for 60 plus years in the salty fog of Central California.  But glory be to God… some genius used brass screws to hold the little buggers in!  They simply unscrewed… easy peasy… well not perfectly easy because they were all flathead screws…and soft brass… so semi easy peasy..  I replaced with new Philips head brass screws…. somebody somewhere probably hates me for switching them… sorry buddy… Just be glad they don't make allen head or I might have used them.


I spent a few hours scraping the white overspray off the galvanized door top bits… they were sprayed all white… and that was a bit sloppy looking and incorrect.     Good to get the door tops looking spit spot… even if the paint that's left is stained and scratched.   It just looks proper now.    Maybe in a month or so I'll get it all back together…   


Oh… Had to get a horn button too… as my "friend" cracked my original to pieces whilst honking at some girls when I let him drive it. Smacked it a tad too hard. ( Don't ask.)  But HOLY SMOKES… That whole horn button assembly is expensive!  Jeez! I initially decided there was no way in hell I was gonna spend $400US for the damn horn button assembly…. and just put a switch on the dash instead… but after a few hours on the internet eventually found Charlesworth and Sons LTD Plastic Moulders… and got just the button alone for 17.5 pounds sterling. (which thanks to Brexit hoopla means basically free in US dollars (joking here).


ANYWAY…..  What british GENIUS designed the horn button fitment into the steering column.  MY GOD… I doubt they could have made that design any more of a pain in the arse.   IT's like removing the spine out of a living cat. C'Mon guys… go look at a VW… so simple… same operation takes 5 seconds.


Lastly… Is it considered restoration to fix the rust in the bulkhead??… I hope not.  Seems more like proper maintenance to me.  certainly won't look restored.  Kinda worried it will feel a bit like "faux" patina on the bulkhead… gonna have to really work to properly muck that bit back into balance with the rest of the "Wabi Sabi" (look it up) body.
Morning Eric. At least it is Saturday morning here in the UK.
I have only just read the whole of this take and enjoyed it immensely. I just started laughing at the thought of taking the spine out of a cat! My wife thinks I have lost it again!
Great story and thanks for sharing. Nice job.
Nigel.


Sent from my iPhone using LRSOC
Nigel Mottershead

KAC 87 1950 80" 2 litre prototype, WYJ 911 1951 80"
The trouble is that I don't know enough to know that I don't know....

September 14, 2019 - 16:54
Reply #29

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
Wheel/tire (debated spelling it “tyre” but since I’m only 33% “British Isles” according to the DNA test my wife had us take I figured that might might be pushing things too much).


In any case... Opinions (note capitalization) on the following are welcome:


Here we go:


I was given some rims and tyres (oops) off of a Perentie Land Rover a friend snuck over here from Oz. He took them off and replaced them with some newfangled defender rims.  They’re a bit wider... and have a bit more offset than the factory stock original I have on the 80.  They’ve got tall 750-16 meaty off road tires on them.


My neighbor gave me the old 16” radial “winter” tread tires off his Vanagon 16’er synchro DOKA (yes... I’ve got a cool neighbor, thank you for noticing) and those are on my stock rims but they are a wee bit small and rather pedestrian feeling.


So...


I have a choice.  Should I run the free wider meatier off road tires on the perentie wider rims and go for the “I don’t care what you think”, “Merica” , monster trucks rule, mud bogger look?


Or


Should I continue with the “I’m an anthropologist librarian rivet counter” 185 series on the stock skinny rims?


There is a third option... but it requires me to spend $600 dollars (that’s gonna be equivalent to 2 miilion pounds in October I hear) on new 650 cough “off road”, cough tires from a USA vintage tire place. They are pretty meaty but I don’t really like the look of the tread... but it’s ok enough.  I do like the tall skinny bit though.


It’s a subjective decision with no correct answer... only a lot of opinions. But I find the opinions 1) quite entertaining, 2) fairly informative, 3) a curious display of what my wife calls “male answer syndrome” ( the male of the species, when asked a question by a female, must concoct some sort of reasonable explanation despite facts or accurate knowledge of the subject matter... or, indeed because of vast knowledge too deep to ponder. )


Bring on the opinions please!  The more extreme the better. Nobody is wrong... points for humor though and I will be ranking the results later in a further post with derogatory (yet loving) subtexts.... so no pressure.   



September 14, 2019 - 17:49
Reply #30

Offline GunnarTM

  • LRSOC & LR Register Member
  • Location: Bad Homburg vdH, Germany
    • Verein Landschaftsschutz Platzenberg
I have a '53 80" with Lassa tires (Turkish-made https://www.johnrichardssurplus.co.uk/lassa-7-50-16c-tyre.html ) that I think look pretty great, are reasonably-priced, and work well on and off road.  My '15 Defender came with Goodyears that I think look and run equally well.  Personally, I think all Land Rovers look a bit douchey with too-wide tires ... a bit like putting an above-ground pool in front of Buckingham Palace :-)


Sent from my iPhone using LRSOC
'53 Series I 80" 36102446 HGUE53H 409YUE YJH780F 44AA91
'15 Defender 90" Heritage
'13 LR2 SD4 HSE
'13 LR4 SDV6 HSE
Former owner '62 Series IIa 109"

September 14, 2019 - 20:09
Reply #31

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
Personally, I think all Land Rovers look a bit douchey with too-wide tires ... a bit like putting an above-ground pool in front of Buckingham Palace :-)


Yeah... agree about the “doucheyness” factor.... but it’s a bit offset by the “free” factor... so there’s that in their favor. And truly... on an American scale... 750x16’s are tiny!  Mostly it’s the offset on the wider rims that makes me twitch a tad.  I just can’t decide if it makes me twitch enough to go spend 600 dollars on skinny tall tires.   Your 80 looks good though... with the 750’s... not douchey at all!... so I’m gaining faith!

September 15, 2019 - 07:45
Reply #32

Offline peterholden

  • Non-Member
  • A Yorkshireman on missionary duty in Lancashire
  • Location: Lancashire, UK
I run 750 x 16 Goodyear wranglers on standard UK LWB rims on my s2 88, they dont look out of place, they just fill the wheel arches nicely.  our 51 80" rat has 700 x 16s on standard rims shortly to be replaced with 750s (yes they do fit on standard rims our 59 S2 88 has worn this tyre/wheel combination for over 40 years).  Our 55 107 has 750s on and it looks the business.
Peter
1 Thank you.

September 15, 2019 - 08:54
Reply #33

Offline fifty seven

  • LRSOC Member
  • Location: West Highlands, Scotland
There is a whole range of conflict here.
Increasing tyre radius will decrease the turning circle. With standard wheels the lock stop bolt must be reset to prevent any larger tyre catching on the springs at full lock. Once offroad this compromise of usual turning circle becomes a real drawback.
One work-around is to fit the larger tyres to wheels with deeper dishing. If this is done, then it is necessary to consider the fit of each tyre within the wheel arches at full axle articulation.
The next work around to get tyres to fit is to increase the distance between chassis and axles. This is a huge subject, and all sorts of  concerns emerge, not least compromise of stability, length of propshafts affecting angles onto carden joints and so on.
One lasting effect of fitting wider tyres is the reduction in ground pressure, The 80" is a light vehicle, fitting wider tyres may on the face of it increase "flotation" what this actually does is reduce the ability of the tyre to find grip offroad unless run at very low pressures indeed. The steering of All early Land Rovers leaves a tendency to wander on uneven roads. Add to that tyres run softer than usual (so as deliver grip) and you have a very unstable set up.
That said, Team Faff ( see elsewhere on the forum) have been running huge tyres on 80" fitted with tdi motors and later running gear  So far as I know These tyres are also are on enhanced springs and are using later axles. ( perhaps someone who knows detail of these "highly mobile" wagons will correct me ? )

1 Thank you.

November 26, 2019 - 01:27
Reply #34

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
Well…  that took a lot longer than expected! But the original bulkhead is now repaired… and repainted.  The Rover was originally green… then painted white in the 1960's by my dad… so we decided to paint the bulkhead green first… then paint it white.  Now… any new scratches… (yes… I expect a lot of them from prowling around in the future) will expose the green paint underneath… just like the rest of the body does.   Heres a shot of the bulkhead as it sits now.  now on to re-assembly.


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November 26, 2019 - 01:30
Reply #35

Offline 80inch

  • Non-Member
  • Location: Central Coast of California, USA
Compare the "after" to the "before" !
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