Land Rover Series One Club

General Section => General Forum => Topic started by: The Pink Toenail on January 11, 2019 - 15:37

Title: JLR job losses
Post by: The Pink Toenail on January 11, 2019 - 15:37
Sad news that JLR are planning to axe up to 5,000 jobs. Media recon it's a mix of Gov policy on diesel, falling sales in China and Brexit. Brings back memories of the one step forward, two steps backwards decline of the British car industry in the 70's & 80's. Hope not! Made me think though....if Brexit ends in a "no deal" will JLR be forced to move it's 40,000 UK jobs & operations to the EU to maintain it's European sales?
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: ian on January 11, 2019 - 15:53
Think they have started already....


https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/jaguar-land-rover-slovakia-discovery-15334918.amp (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/jaguar-land-rover-slovakia-discovery-15334918.amp)
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: fulltilt on January 11, 2019 - 16:30
Slovakian government to grant £108 million to car maker for new factory in Nitra.

So - where did the Slovak gov. get the  £ 108 million from    :undecided:       I think I know   ;D

I well remember during the 1980's , and can name several townships that gained a new by-pass in N.E. England .  If a one-horse town lost its only main industry - then it got a new road  (probably so the hardship / devestation could not be seen by passing motorists ).

For several years at both ends of the new stretch of road was a massive DCC hoarding,  stating - financed with EEC assistance.

Play by the rules   :huh:   too late / to honest ,,  in the early years  Greece - painted fake olive groves on the ground to fool surveillance ,   whilst Italy managed to actually loose at least one blast furnace by clever industrial camouflage.   
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Sparshatts on January 11, 2019 - 17:12
I wonder if targeting the luxury/SUV sector of the market and turning their back on the commercial and military markets will pay off
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: FHF58 on January 11, 2019 - 17:51
I wonder if targeting the luxury/SUV sector of the market and turning their back on the commercial and military markets will pay off
I am surprised that they haven't taken advantage of the Tata relationship to develop proper commercial style 4x4s under the Defender brand.  Specialisation is OK but the SUV market is seeing a lot of growth from many new entrants.  Few of them also build proper military friendly small trucks like a Defender replacement or Unimog alternative.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: mutley1954 on January 11, 2019 - 17:57
 Its because they dont build what people want !! Toyxxxa Hixxx  is king.  . Sorry.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Dpaz on January 11, 2019 - 18:00
Let us remember that JLR is an Indian company now. Britain has a wonderful record of innovation followed by chucking it all down the pan. I have a S1 which I love, I once had a work supplied 110 TD5 which was Ok  but, a new clutch on recall a new gearbox (faulty) cylinder head problem duff heater plugs in the winter! All this between 40-70K mls. Dealer indifference . I was doing about 3.5-4Kml a month . I was given a Ford Ranger while the TD5 was being fixed. It was on the same tyres as the TD5 ,Pirrelli Scorpions. It would do any thing the TD5 would do towing a 2 tonne trailer off road, cruising quietly on 250ml commutes Air con in the summer . I wonder why after the first 2 days I didn't want the TD5 back? I did about 60k mls without a problem before I had to give it back . QED?BTW Hilux was good but Ranger was better
Title: JLR job losses
Post by: mystery on January 11, 2019 - 18:04
Administrator Comment Post removed due to bad language. This isn’t Facebook
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: linesrg on January 11, 2019 - 19:00
Good Evening All,

Is anybody genuinely surprised at this news? If you sink all your eggs in to essentially one basket........ it certainly hasn't come as a surprise to me.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: trainingaid on January 11, 2019 - 19:31

Put all your eggs in the luxury SUV market, and look what happens.....frustrating really. Remember the Freelander 1, previously the best selling 4x4 in Europe?
In 2003 we bought a Maasai Mara (one of the last pre facelift Freelanders) for cash price £13995. 3 years later and the last Freelander 1 (Adventurer) was if I remember rightly, about 18k....on a PCP that was us done. Now how much for the cheapest Discovery Sport?
Can't take it away from them, they have been doing very well, but a whole chunk of vehicle buyers have just been forgotten, i.e those of us on an UK average income.
Bet the likes of Ford, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota, are really quaking in their boots at the advent of the new, reputedly high priced Defender, not.
Please prove me wrong JLR!
Meanwhile, shortly to be parked next our Minerva (series 1 content  ;D ;D ) will be a new shape Dacia Duster 4X4. Go Duster!

Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: fifty seven on January 11, 2019 - 19:32
Good Evening All,

Is anybody genuinely surprised at this news? If you sink all your eggs in to essentially one basket........ it certainly hasn't come as a surprise to me.

Regards

Richard
There is a past parallel with the ancestor Rover company that almost sank just like this. If it had not been for the success of Land Rover through 1950's the Rover brand could never have survived their narrow concentration on the upmarket Rover 90 - Rover 110 Car range of products.
 Once safety legislation imposed speed impact tests and 'crumple engineering' Rover Company very nearly went to the wall. The Land Rover brand disappeared into what became British Leyland. The Rover name featured on the 2000 - 3500 series and then disappeared except for use to re-badge cheap and cheeful BMC for an upper bracket market. 

Narrow ledges are the hardest to walk along  :tic:
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: msm80 on January 11, 2019 - 19:46

To quote Richard above


"Good Evening All
Is anybody genuinely surprised at this news? If you sink all your eggs in to essentially one basket........ it certainly hasn't come as a surprise to me.
Regards Richard"

Nope!
JLR have seemingly steamed on into continuing to pamper to the luxury 4x4 market and as happens so much in this country, Brexit or no Brexit they have failed, as even the most adventurous western economy car makers, by not really sticking to the basics and have something ready that can take new hybrid or electric traction to the masses. Its all very well being tied to competing with Tesla but at the top end which may save Jaguar but not anything remotely 4x4. Much as it galls me to say it Ford by its sheer size alone along with Hyundi and KIA etc are just waiting to pounce on the Defender vacuum. I really cannot see the replacement Defender making it now. The Classic Heritage business is one we can only hope is a separate entity such that they can continue if only for the sake of those employees that enjoy what many of us do as a hobby.


While I am an ardent environmentalist I still cannot see how an HM Gov knee jerk against diesels makes sense if they have not prepared the ground first for new traction to take a sensible hold. Us country folk will still require some sort of independent transport that must be reliable and go the distance, while towns folk may have to forgo their four wheels if they cannot find a handy charge point in their street, especially if they live in a block of flats! Funny we can give up plastic bags overnight but our wheels...……... impossible after a century of having everything built around and by them for our convenience. 30+ million vehicles to switch traction is going to need a lot of change and adaptation and its just not been thought through...….. mmmm just like Brexit
:banghead: 
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Keith Robertshaw on January 11, 2019 - 19:52
I convinced my wife 3 years ago that we shouldn’t get a diesel Hyundai suv as we didn’t do enough miles, and I secretly wanted a disco sport petrol. However lr them making them for export they wouldn’t sell us one. Which suited my wife as she wanted a Hyundai Santa Fe.  :(   3 years later it hasn’t had anything go wrong with it or been back to the dealer apart from routine servicing. It’s got every conceivable toy on it and cost £20k less than the equivalent optioned up disco sport


It seems that lr don’t want to sell volume at lower price points, but I think they’re missing a trick. I’m not a fan of vw and their badge engineered suvs, but the Skoda yeti was a stroke of genius. This is where they should be focusing their r&d efforts - at least in a volatle market they’d get revenue, and the smaller vehicle would carry a petrol or electric power train
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Bruce on January 11, 2019 - 20:28
Seems like they have a bit of a death wish. Still relying on the "Rugged Defender" heritage image, without producing anything that actually resembles it. Vehicle manufacturers survive by diversifying, not relying on basically one niche market. The new "Defender", if it now ever happens, is just taking a thin slice of their  own overcrowded luxury market, and will probably not bring them many new customers at all.
Unfortunately it appears to be a British disease. Make hay whilst the sun shines, with little thought of what will happen when it rains. (no more boom and bust, pound in you pocket, sell gold reserves, tax pension pots etc. etc.)
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: ian on January 11, 2019 - 20:54
Very true!


They should have had the Defender replacement ready to go as the old one went out, it may have sold well?
They had the whole world holding its breath in anticipation but nothing happened!
many have got bored of waiting  and have brought other brands,
You can only keep people waiting for so long.


When they stopped production, for me a huge part of Land Rover heritage died, they will never get that back, no matter how much they dwell on the past, they will never be able recreate it?


A missed opportunity....😕







Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: roversrussell on January 11, 2019 - 21:31
hi guys happy new year a little off the subject is this worked many years in coventry on major shutdowns in all of the car factories and the tool companys1959 to 1974    i used have beer with wol veasy at the ansty working mens club in ansty by the canal they were good days  and his son in law dave all passed now  wol worked for the morris most of his life     when in uk 4 years ago on the coventry a45 by pass going down  memory lane    where the standard car factory stood is now wait for it  ?????????????       french car name   way      what does that tell you regards jim pearl
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: 3sheets86 on January 12, 2019 - 00:24
The director of JLR is German and he is against Brexit so blames anything and everything on Brexit in an attempt to stuff it up the government, It's all a political protest really.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Stephen M on January 12, 2019 - 08:48
I think we should avoid straying onto focusing on Brexit - better off focusing on what unites us (series 1’s 😊) rather than that which divides us.


I think the Chinese downturn has been called out as the biggest impact. But I wonder how much of JLR’s supply chain sits outside the UK?   With just in time logistics and supply chain management - that could easily be a huge driver in this.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: farmer on January 12, 2019 - 14:21
I agree with much that has been said already by our members  I agree that the defender should be replaced by something very close to the original concept but I fear that it won't. In my opinion Land Rover only make one car, which is a luxury 4x4. All models are slight variants of the same thing. The corporate image makes it difficult to spot the differences. I own a Discovery4 which transports my wife's mobility scooter. The Discovery 5 won't take the scooter as its load space has reduced in size. Less practical but Land Rover no longer do practical. Corporate image means more to them.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: T28-trakgrip on January 12, 2019 - 16:04
Arrange these words into a well known phrase or saying.  Eggs basket one all in.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: fulltilt on January 12, 2019 - 18:07
It is ironic that Ford's Bridgend Works (Producing Engines for Land Rover) is now in trouble , also with staff lay-offs.  Yet  Jim Ratcliffe with his Projekt Grenadier is looking into the suitability of the site.

The  XD  Wolf has been a very good vehicle for the MOD , there was talk of actually 'remounting' conversion of 90" into 110" not so long ago ,  the green fleet is now being sold off.

All the "protected' models of vehicles needed for Afgan.  are hardly suitable to take over some replacement (weighing say 5 tonne to 7 tonne).  Bowman equipped FFR's will be needed for a few more years.

I wonder if the intention is to have a civvy Grenadier for farmers & enthusiasts + a  XD  version to lure the MOD    :undecided:
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: The Pink Toenail on January 12, 2019 - 21:42
I think they JLR to think outside the box with new models. Something of practical size like the defender as there current models are virtually un-distinguishable from all the other SUV's...except by the badge. If they came up with said vehicle but taking account of government legislation, cost of fuel, market place readiness to accept alternate and greener fuel sources, etc, such as a truly electrical powered 4x4 with a decent range per charge. Sort of as reliable as the Tesla is getting in the car marketplace. It could be done as a lot of the technology has been developed and proven.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: FHF58 on January 13, 2019 - 10:17
I think this is what the new Defender should have been, beaten to launch by Rivian.
https://products.rivian.com/
Utility 4x4 very well thought out with lots of storage and utility features.  Volume exists in the vehicle to add a range extending generator too.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: The Pink Toenail on January 13, 2019 - 11:05
Did not know about the Rivian Matt.....thanks for that.


Over here what passes for the main news channels appear to be little more than DJT gossip pedlars.....I have to watch BBC America every day to find out whats going on in the rest of the world. Just read up on it......most of the press articles are late Nov 2018 detailing the launch of the vehicles. They are a Michigan based company headed up by MIT graduates.....not yet in production but looks like it will be built in Normal, Illinois at the ex Mitsubishi plant.


https://www.foxnews.com/auto/the-rivian-rt1-may-be-the-american-made-electric-pickup-of-the-near-future (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/the-rivian-rt1-may-be-the-american-made-electric-pickup-of-the-near-future)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw)



They are offering 2 models (SUV & Truck) with 3 range options (battery pack size) for 200; 300; & 400 mile ranges with prices starting at $69K (£54K) and already taking orders. It has an electric motor on each wheel and can wade through 1 meter of water and is bristling with sensors and cameras and modern technology options.


In my opinion this is exactly where JLR needed to be.



 
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Dollar Bill on January 13, 2019 - 11:10

What a great vehicle.


I think in the future, the history books will show that while other countries were forging ahead with new technology, the brits were squabbling amongst each other over brexit. I am not sure if this country will recover.


Denton
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: fifty seven on January 13, 2019 - 12:40
Probably this thread has been moved along in a direction free of Series One relevance. Refreshing perhaps ... Forum mods can pass judgement ?

But before we think of converting our early Land Rovers to run electric with rechargeable batteries it is well worth remembering the price being levied around the world for this much flaunted technological convenience ? 

British TV seems to have gone rather quiet about pollution and exploitation due to mineral extraction just now. So if you don't understand much German this link to a TV documentary may never enlighten ..The plight of those exploited is disturbing , the environmental consequences in arid areas, wholly relevant for each device that employs the most advanced rechargeable batteries today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0kN81HW8t8&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0kN81HW8t8&feature=youtu.be)
(Mods...if this veers too far off this forum's territory, feel free-please censor. :hmm: )
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Willerby on January 13, 2019 - 17:55
I think the relevance to us all is apparent.

I looked into the costs of converting a Series One to electric, sensing that we have a limited amount of time before this probably becomes a necessity. In my view, costs need to be nearer £5k and the legislative environment re rebuilt historic vehicles needs improving so looks like a few years away.

Ref the Rivian, really interesting. All I’d say is that generally there is little first mover advantage when pushing the boundaries of technology unless you have something truly unique that can’t be copied.

In this case I see a nice product design but one that can be replicated pretty quickly by others when the charging infrastructure is better advanced, standards are in place and the market is viable?


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Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: FHF58 on January 14, 2019 - 10:31

Ref the Rivian, really interesting. All I’d say is that generally there is little first mover advantage when pushing the boundaries of technology unless you have something truly unique that can’t be copied.
In this case I see a nice product design but one that can be replicated pretty quickly by others when the charging infrastructure is better advanced, standards are in place and the market is viable?
Electric and Hybrid vehicles have more in common with aircraft than Bicycles.  The engineering and development effort to get the Rivian to it's debut is phenomenal.  Anything can be copied but the important bit is understanding why a hidden or subtle solution was selected over a potentially cheaper one.
A more relevant example might be the Jet engine - the concept is easy to duplicate but know-how such as metallurgy is hard-won.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: philpjread on January 14, 2019 - 11:28
It will be interesting to see how long batteries last and what the replacement cost is.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: shropshire lad on January 14, 2019 - 12:08
I predict that the cost of LWB Series Ones will increase and the value of 80” will drop when people realise that there is more room in a LWB to fit batteries than a short stumpy 80” . I think I shall start stockpiling 107/109s in time for the rush . I just need to get it passed The Missus as a potential sound investment !
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Bruce on January 14, 2019 - 12:42
I predict that the cost of LWB Series Ones will increase and the value of 80” will drop when people realise that there is more room in a LWB to fit batteries than a short stumpy 80” . I think I shall start stockpiling 107/109s in time for the rush . I just need to get it passed The Missus as a potential sound investment !


Easier still. just stockpile Brockhouse trailers as mobile battery packs. In Australia you could tow a complete convoy of them as a "road train".
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: shropshire lad on January 14, 2019 - 14:10

Easier still. just stockpile Brockhouse trailers as mobile battery packs. In Australia you could tow a complete convoy of them as a "road train".


  I suspect there are more LWBs around than Brockhouses . Still something similar shouldn’t  be too hard to produce .
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: C00kie on January 14, 2019 - 15:03
This thread makes interesting reading. I'm hoping to start my 80 rebuild in Spring and am looking at electric options. My wife has a Nissan Leaf which does about 80 miles per charge which is perfect toy adequate for her 30 mile commute. I love the thing it just does everything it is supposed to do.

The Rivian looks great but I'd take the Bollinger in preference: https://www.bollingermotors.com In fact when I first saw pictures of it I thought it was another mock up of what the new Defender might look like. Reminds me of a 21st century Mr Wilks might have come up with... Pure utility with mains power sockets in the rear and full length storage for several 2 X 4 timbers courtesy of the opening "radiator" grille.

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Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: ike on January 14, 2019 - 18:37
Refreshingly "premium" BS-free.  I like this a lot
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: msm80 on January 14, 2019 - 19:04
Probably this thread has been moved along in a direction free of Series One relevance. Refreshing perhaps ... Forum mods can pass judgement ?

But before we think of converting our early Land Rovers to run electric with rechargeable batteries it is well worth remembering the price being levied around the world for this much flaunted technological convenience ? 

British TV seems to have gone rather quiet about pollution and exploitation due to mineral extraction just now.



As an environmental pessimist I quite agree with the sentiment Tom. As usual the media are loading the argument without presenting all the facts either way. Meanwhile the UK slumbers on with few EV's, though to be fair we have another 21years to go!


Lanny Clark's S1 80" conversion in the US used 16 lead acid batteries of current design that while they only gave about a 40mile range and 40mph top speed, the set up seemed totally practicable to me if a bit risky as a friend told me given the number of amps he had under the bonnet and tub floor. What was sensible was the use of readily available technology, that while it might not have a high output for rapid starts and hills I felt sure the motors being used could be better designed for such voltages and set ups rather than exploiting rare earth metals. I no doubt investors will be rushing to invest in Lithium and conductors if they haven't already!


As for pollution news you must have had connections with the BBC. Typically they knee jerk the masses again today now suggesting wood burners are the offenders, no mention of the thousands and thousands of flights spewing Aviation Fuel into the atmosphere every minute of every day while the global population spreads itself willy nilly across the planet. All fossil fuel, that stuff that was locked away over millions of years, the combined stored energy from the sun of which it was made now being released in decades. No surprise something has to give.


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the energy balance of the planet is changing and the weather 'engine' is now responding with dire results as predicted over 30 years ago or more when I studied it at university. HM Government then have the cheek to suggest my little 4kW wood burner is adding to this burden despite burning wood that is totally recyclable in the carbon cycle of the present day because that carbon was easily trapped a few decades ago. But cities do need to control traffic and air miles first before us country folk have to freeze if you are not running on gas or oil (I have a heat pump at least so I feel I am doing my bit). Though it looks like some of us may be denied the right to drive our S1's on logging forays in the near future just so urbanites can breath!


Sadly my German is non-existent as I only made a couple of minutes but I suspect it makes an interesting programme and food for thought for everyone I am sure.


Keep going folks while you can :steering:


Malcolm
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: linesrg on January 14, 2019 - 20:30
Good Evening All,
On the subject of the direction JLR are heading (one assumes there is a plan) I still don't quite fully understand the 'Reborn' programme. I am an enthusiast of the marque but am seriously puzzled by the firm's direction. 
Regards
Richard
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: philpjread on January 15, 2019 - 14:53

As for pollution news you must have had connections with the BBC. Typically they knee jerk the masses again today now suggesting wood burners are the offenders, no mention of the thousands and thousands of flights spewing Aviation Fuel into the atmosphere every minute of every day while the global population spreads itself willy nilly across the planet. All fossil fuel, that stuff that was locked away over millions of years, the combined stored energy from the sun of which it was made now being released in decades. No surprise something has to give. Keep going folks while you can :steering:

Malcolm
From 2009 to 2013 I was working on variouse development projects in former Yugoslav countries, building schools. the prefered method of heating, npromoted by the EU and americans was Wood Pellets >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( .
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: fulltilt on January 15, 2019 - 15:13
Good Evening All,
On the subject of the direction JLR are heading (one assumes there is a plan) I still don't quite fully understand the 'Reborn' programme. I am an enthusiast of the marque but am seriously puzzled by the firm's direction. 
Regards
Richard

Reborn  =   LR is all for DIY themselves of a 1/2 century old hobby.

The firms direction seems again DIY ,  Solihull missed out on this boat,,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46880937

NB.   No use of the 1980's buzz word(s)    "Common Platform"   new century - people have forgotton.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Bruce on January 17, 2019 - 11:00
Anyone that thinks that EV's are the future in the UK fails to understand just how much electricity we would need to generate to power them. All existing Nuclear plants have a very limited lifespan, and 2 new nuclear plants will now not be built (Wylfa cancelled today). A few more wind farms just ain't going to cut it. Look forward to electricity shortages.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: rodthrutheblock on January 17, 2019 - 11:29
Good Evening All,
On the subject of the direction JLR are heading (one assumes there is a plan) I still don't quite fully understand the 'Reborn' programme. I am an enthusiast of the marque but am seriously puzzled by the firm's direction. 
Regards
Richard

Reborn was a great stunt for the 70th anniversary, specially in the absence of a Defender vehicle, but it's not a sustainable business model. Series Ones are oddly complicated to restore (compared to things like Jeeps), the market tiny and parts supply disjointed. JLR have tried to rely on the same cottage industry suppliers that enthusiasts use and apart from some wheels (that sadly aren't faithful copies) they haven't filled the market with parts for us as promised. In fact, the opposite has happened and supply of parts has seriously dwindled. Collectors with big bucks to spend mostly want 'the' model to have i.e. an early 80, and there simply isn't the supply of them either. Perhaps it's time for some 'continuation' early 80s (like the E-Type lightweight programme) or splitting and selling Reborn from the parent company?
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: daleradford on January 17, 2019 - 11:55

Not good if you have a early Range Rover too, as they are buying NOS parts, but will not willing to pay for minimum order to remanufactured nut plates.
Just had order for three cars so still doing the series ones.


Dale
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: linesrg on January 17, 2019 - 21:06
Anyone that thinks that EV's are the future in the UK fails to understand just how much electricity we would need to generate to power them. All existing Nuclear plants have a very limited lifespan, and 2 new nuclear plants will now not be built (Wylfa cancelled today). A few more wind farms just ain't going to cut it. Look forward to electricity shortages.
Bruce,
Your authoritative source for this posting is.............
Regards
Richard
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Daniel1957 on January 18, 2019 - 20:14
...meanwhile the Chinese are laughing....

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Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Keith Robertshaw on January 18, 2019 - 21:06
I think the relevance to us all is apparent.

I looked into the costs of converting a Series One to electric, sensing that we have a limited amount of time before this probably becomes a necessity. In my view, costs need to be nearer £5k and the legislative environment re rebuilt historic vehicles needs improving so looks like a few years away.

Ref the Rivian, really interesting. All I’d say is that generally there is little first mover advantage when pushing the boundaries of technology unless you have something truly unique that can’t be copied.

In this case I see a nice product design but one that can be replicated pretty quickly by others when the charging infrastructure is better advanced, standards are in place and the market is viable?


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In February’s ‘classic cars’ there is an article on p 18 about a company called RBW who are converting MGBs to electric, for the bargain price of £99-115k. They are selling the vehicles as new, with a new heritage shell, hence the high price.
Keith
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Stephen M on January 19, 2019 - 08:58
...meanwhile the Chinese are laughing....

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They are getting better!
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: msm80 on January 19, 2019 - 10:01

And very clever!! They've practically taken over the 'Made in GB' monopoly we had some 50 years ago, largely it has to be said by copying but now after sending many of their brighter students abroad (particularly to the UK) they more or less control the global market place, hence US are worried and climatologists are also concerned less they fail to grasp the seriousness of the situation as the US has done so spectacularly under Trump with his mega U turn. The world is finite and we have to learn to all live, a) together, b) share the resources of the planet and c) cut back on population. I find it incomprehensible that a species probably with a brain size 100 times bigger that the dinosaurs can wipe out its own planet so easily while dino and his friends managed to chomp their way for over 160million years until some cataclysm hit them in the end.
We have the intelligence and technology to do something about it and yet the idiots we vote into power (or by Referendum!!) seem hell bent on wrecking it all.


The Chinese I am afraid have at least thousands of years of experience to underpin their success but he US far less so I have more faith in the former to be honest being sensible and perhaps capable of putting the brakes on human expansion in the long run. Just to add a S1 content I suspect many excellent models have  have mafe in china on them!


Yours  M
apologies for being a bit pessimistic but hey ho this is a forum after all.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Daniel1957 on January 20, 2019 - 09:05
Wow M, what green religion are you a member off?  There has been so much propaganda spread by the green doomsday prophets.....and yet the facts are continually left out of the debate.  Totally irrational decisions are being made by the German EU masters of Europe whilst UK argues amongst themselves whether to cut their losses or keep pandering to the modern  quacks and witchdoctors that are part of the green religion machine.

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Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: msm80 on January 20, 2019 - 09:55

Hi Daniel


Not religious at all! I'm neither a tree hugger either (I tend to burn these in my carbon recycling woodburner!!). Clearly the pioneering spirit that developed the Commonwealth and the western economy (for which us Brits I admit are probably entirely responsible and for whom ironically the tables are now turned) as we now import so much like you do from countries like China) has not been tempered by recent climatic events.


The debate may well rage on as to whether man is the cause, for me it is blatantly obvious, with temperature records and Ice records at the poles, even if such effects can be described as natural. Being the cautious type I firmly believe that given fossil fuel is finite and that nuclear power is proven to be a high risk energy source for life on earth, then anything that can be done to switch our dependence away from such energy is both sensible (because oil is better used as a lubricant or for specialist chemistry).


Much of the energy radiated by that big shiny thing in the sky goes to waste every day unless we can convert it using hydro, tidal, solar and even bio-composition to conserve and distribute energy for future generations everywhere. Sooner or later world economies will have to do this anyway, I just believe that doing it now makes absolute sense before it is too late. By the way the Great Barrier Reef isn't looking too healthy at the moment and lord knows wildfires seem to be getting a tad more aggressive are they not?


I'm not advocating we should all rush out and abandon our S1's and buy driverless electric cars (I agree driverless is going too far), but seeing the way HMUK government is going with Brexit etc and a sudden desire to become 'green' then I for one am seriously considering looking at a conversion of a Series 1 or SII just so I can continue to do so, such is the iconic status and adaptability of the marque. That has been proven already and quite economically on this forum with a very good lightweight SII/III done in Australia and Lanny Clark in Canada I think it was.


Naturally yours


Malcolm

Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: fifty seven on January 20, 2019 - 10:26
It proves hard to get at accurate worldwide statistics for the number of road vehicles in use today. The totals are variously estimated at slightly over one billion ,increasing by near 100 million a year.  The total is projected to double on present trends by 2040. If correct, this 2 billion figure would still mean that 2/5ths of the worlds families by then will not enjoy ownership of any motor vehicle.

Leaving chemistry out of the argument ...and at the simplest level :

As a result of obsession with road transport alone... Over One billion radiators and perhaps 4 billion brake discs/systems are warming the planet already.
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: vardjewell on January 20, 2019 - 10:56
I see only one major design fault on this plant and that is the number of US , no not members, humans sorry not gender neutral HUPEOPLE !  No matter how many vehicles million, billions if there’s only one driver not too much pollution
     Vardon
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Geoff and Vanessa on January 20, 2019 - 11:13
I'm just going to enjoy mine while I can.

Thinking about it we may be the last generation to enjoy a Series One, there is a high purchase price, an end date on all petrol only vehicles and allied to that will be a dwindling supply of petrol stations with an ever increasing fuel cost.

Hmm logic says there will be a burst bubble and a major selling price crash on classic vehicles, might even buy another one  :tic:


Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: Eddy Camerlinck on January 20, 2019 - 11:46
Things change all the time, , horse and cart are, gone all the great windjammers are gone,steam has gone.....
Time changes and we adapt to it. Maybe next century (i will turn 165 by then ;D ) the big windjammers will return ...Who knows???Regards Eddy
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: fulltilt on January 20, 2019 - 12:50
msm80

It is only 80 years (very short in planetry terms)  since the start of WW2 when British global power / imperialist empire was starting to fold.  WW2 was all about access to strategic raw materials and oil , but mainly about supply of food for UK & Germany.   

Geopolitically - all was made known by -  Halford John Mackinder and his 'Heartland Theory'  , for a few years Hitler was educated on this by Karl Haushofer ,   the fuhrer deviated his own way a little.

Russia still owns the bulk of the - heartland, if it wished it could soon retun the satellites.

China has good mineral reserves (the rare earths) , however it has infiltrated Africa well ,  IIRC it is operating the largest copper mine in the world (Afgan) ,  US & UK seem to have little in Afgan.

US fracked gas has held down the Russian gas pipeline £ paid.  Who expected reformed fuels from such as gas from fracking only 10 years ago   :undecided:

Nothing has changed in 75 years - those with a carrier fleet 'rule the roost'  ,  however , regardless of destroyer escorts - if ever the Chinese sank a carrier with one of those missiles they have , it would be a nuclear exchange   :huh:

My elder son went to Lancaster Univ. (est. IIRC abt. 1965)  , it was full of Chinese students , he graduated 1994 - I counted 10 tower cranes building new student accomodation (expansion for Chinese).  Younger son went to Newcastle Univ.  - quite a large Chinese cointingent.

A valeo OEM radiator for a 207 or Picasso cost abt.  £80 at cheapest.  We are paying the price   ;D   a three year warranted rad. Chinese off eBay can be had for only  £21.  I certainly will not be making a claim on the first I fitted - 4 years ago   :huh:

It will be interesting to see if China gets around to a traditional Rover flat-top or Acorn top radiator , instead of the present alloy / plastic offerings.  Llanelli acorn tops seem NLA.
 
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: The Pink Toenail on January 20, 2019 - 16:29

"seeing the way HMUK government is going with Brexit etc and a sudden desire to become 'green' then I for one am seriously considering looking at a conversion of a Series 1 or SII just so I can continue to do so, such is the iconic status and adaptability of the marque. That has been proven already and quite economically on this forum with a very good lightweight SII/III done in Australia and Lanny Clark in Canada I think it was."

I think it's a good idea Malcolm to keep a weather eye on legislative changes that may affect you, and consider your options. Over here in the USA and Canada we struggle with parts availability and sourcing for our S1's. However, there are some excellent electric conversion companies that are specializing in supplying conversion components either individually or as a kit customized to requirements....or even will do the total conversion. You may find this one interesting there is a wealth of info on there that will help in understanding components, installation and costs (albeit this side of the pond):

http://ev-propulsion.com/ (http://ev-propulsion.com/)

I would not convert my S1 but when finished I may consider obtaining another early LR in poor condition to convert to EV....just for the challenge. Alternatively I may build one from scratch and make a complete 80" body (lights behind the grille) to fit the custom chassis.


Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: mystery on January 20, 2019 - 18:06
due to the carbon foot print  EV produces  would it not be better to
convert to hydrogen and use 90% of the original vehicles parts
Title: Re: JLR job losses
Post by: msm80 on January 20, 2019 - 18:41
For modern vehicles I agree that is one way science is trying to lead. In Europe and even in the Uk they are experimenting with Hydrogen cell powered trains.
Hybrid systems can I believe give greater potential for all of us to remain wedded to our cars. It is the transistion away from fossil fuel, the carbon locked away over millions of years and now released in decades that somehow needs to be curtailed.
Lanny Clark kindly sent me details of his EV S1 project and it was impressive and not that expensive using the S1 in its entirety except for the engine. He replaced that with a 9kW motor with adaptor married directly to the normal gearbox with no clutch but you could still use high or low ratio from standing. Clearly a hybrid hydrogen burning internal combustion charging a conventional battery bank would be ideal in my book. Trouble is an 80" would not have the room but a SWagon or LWB might be an easy conversion as Pink Toenail suggests.


M